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EXECUTIVE SESSION
TOWN COUNCIL
CITY OF PALM BEACH GARDENS
June 6, 1995
7:05 - 7:50 p.m.
PRESENT:
JOSEPH RUSSO, Mayor
BOBBIE HERAKOVICH
LAUREN FURTADO
LINDA MONROE
DAVID CLARK
ERIC JABLIN
THOMAS BAIRD, ESQ.
JANE PASTORE, Court Reporter
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P R O C E E D I N G S
MR. WATTERSON: We are here in the special
litigation session under Section 286.011. This
is a public meeting that happens to be taking
place in a private setting.
Everything that we say must be taken down
by the court reporter. There are no off -the-
record conversations that are allowed. And
after we are done,with this, within a reasonable
period of time of ending, the court reporter
must produce the transcript and it is filed with
the clerk. It stays confidential until the end
of the case.
Tonight's meeting is to discuss the three
cases that are pending against Palm Beach
Gardens by former employees Julia Byrd, Linda
Erbacher and Linda Bullock.
That case is currently pending on the
third time, pending trial.
We are currently on a docket waiting a
call for the starting of trial.
The docket began on May the 28th and it
will run until July the 12th. We are still --
there is a case ahead of us that is being tried
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right now, and unless it settles we stand a very
good chance of not being reached on this docket.
If we are not reached on this docket, the
earliest that cases are being set in this
division currently is in November. If it goes
over to a November setting, it will not be tried
by the same judge. We will have a new judge in
this division because of a proration; the
existing judge, Honorable Kathryn Brunson,
rotating down to the south county and in her
place will come the Honorable Edward Fine, who
would sit in this division and be our trial
court judge.
The last time this was set for trial on a
docket was in December, and in December
Plaintiff's counsel, who was Fred Gelston,
announced to the court that he didn't think the
case had been set for enough time to conclude it
on that docket and said that we needed more
time.
And the court thus reset it -- the court
struck it from the December docket. Then it
wasn't reset. We have done everything; I came
in and asked for the case to be set. And we are
really trying hard to get this case over with
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and done.
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Now, I think you have had other, plenty of
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other descriptions of the case and I think you
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know the facts of the cases and what their
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claims are. But just briefly:
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It's a 1983 action, civil rights being
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claimed to have been violated by two of the
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Plaintiffs; Linda Bullock, the third Plaintiff,
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claims that she was denied her procedural due
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process, her procedural rights when she lost her
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job out at the golf course.
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The basis of her claim -- this is the only
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claim she has left. And I will only be talking
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about the claims they have left. We have a
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number of orders and summary judgments
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eliminating the claims, most of the claims that
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they have brought.
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But her claim is that she was denied a
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hearing before the Merit Review Board, and thus
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she has been denied her procedural due process
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rights.
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It is our position, of course that she
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never asked for it. Her letter that she filed
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with the city said, "I will be appealing this
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decision to the Merit Review Board," and she
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never filed any paper appealing it.
So that's what's left in her case, and
nothing more.
You've got to remember, I want you to
remember something about these cases: They
proceed under some federal law which is far more
lax and easygoing than what we are used to under
state law.
And sometimes in the federal system, when
we use as a base our federal law -- you can use
federal law while being in a state court --
sometimes the slimmest of things can be
construed to be enough. Deferences go to
people.
So we will ask the court first thing to
dismiss the case on the grounds that it's
obviously not a request for a merit review
hearing, and a judge should make that
determination.
But so far we have had some -- our
existing judge, who is a woman of very good
character, has had some reluctance to make some
of the tougher rulings. And since there is a
jury in this case, sometimes judges will let
things go to the jury and hope the jury finds
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the same decision that they would have made
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themselves. It's easier to do it that way.
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So we are hopeful. We know as a matter of
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law that the judge should make a determination
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that a letter saying "I will be filing" is not
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the same as a letter saying, "I am appealing."
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And I am not particularly concerned about
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the Bullock case.
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The Erbacher and Byrd cases are, thus far
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both of them are -- they both claim that they
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experienced negative employment actions towards
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them: Erbacher losing her job in a
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reorganization, Byrd being transferred /demoted
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at a lower payout to the golf course, and that
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both of those decisions were motivated by the
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fact that, as they describe themselves, they are
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political allies of the former city manager,
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John Orr, and that the decisions were motivated
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by the fact that they had associated themselves
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with John Orr and this was just pure spite and a
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punishment of them for exercising their first
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amendment right to speak out during a campaign
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and support issues and things like that.
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It will be our position that that's okay.
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I have taken the position in court that who
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cares? That it's quite all right to eliminate
the employment of, people in a manager's office
after an election, because people who win it
should have their people in confidential
positions.
I will be taking the position in court
that under no circumstances could these people
remain in those jobs because of the highly
confidential nature of the CEO, city manager's
position;
That at the time, because as they describe
themselves being so loyal to John Orr, how could
this manager's office function when there were
at the time issues affecting the city, such as
what to do about the theft of monies from the
city's bank accounts and transferred to
Mr. Orr's personal account, what to do about
pending litigation in which the city manager and
the city were both being accused of both racial
and sexual discriminatory practices in the
police department, what to do about issues that
had arisen -- whether or not true -- but that
had arisen with respect to the use of pension
funds.
We had outside lawyers representing the
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city and representing the manager, who would be
expected to communicate with the new manager and
couldn't obviously communicate through a
confidential secretary by the name of Julia Byrd
who thought so highly of John Orr to have run
ads in the paper, wrote letters to the editor,
defending the plan.
So it will be our position that the law is
not stupid. It has some common sense to it and
that when, for example, President Clinton was
elected he didn't have to accept President
Bush's secretary.
The other actions are -- Julia Byrd also
claims she was denied her procedural due
process. That won't go anywhere. She never
filed any request for a Merit Review Board
hearing.
Linda Erbacher will claim, also claims
that -- let me take that back. We have knocked
out Linda Erbacher's claim as to procedural due
process.
The best of their cases is a creation of
some sympathy in the jury. Try as I might, with
respect to the strength of our case and in
analyzing their case, I think this case is going
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to go to the jury. I will not know the jury
until I see them on the day that they come up
from downstairs and I question them and I try to
get the best possible jury that I get.
I have had, as any lawyer that has tried
cases, I have had juries from hell; the absolute
profile presenting itself by the luck of the
draw in the courtroom. Now that, the nature of
the jury affects the value of my case, that
affects what's going to happen. I will not know
these factors, who is going to decide this case
until I pick or unpick a jury.
And I am concerned about the issue of jury
sympathy. I will have two or three women. I
hope it's only two; I hope we knock out the
Bullock case early. I will have at least two
ladies in the courtroom, one of whom I think may
engender sympathy, and that's Julia Byrd.
Loyalty is something that is usually an
asset, and she will come across in this
courtroom as having been a real trooper, right
or wrong. She made a mistake, her loyalty
should have been to the City of Palm Beach
Gardens and not to John Orr, but when that juror
goes into that jury deliberation room, I think
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they may take into account that this is an
asset, that this woman felt so strongly about
her position. And they may feel some sympathy
towards her and I'may not be able to get my --
the zero in the case.
Now, if they feel sympathy for her or for
Erbacher, because it could bleed over to
Erbacher -- but I believe she is more along for
a ride, a lark, some fun, see whether we get
some money in the case -- I could end up with a
nominal, relatively nominal jury verdict
favorable to the plaintiff.
What would happen in the event that I get
nominal jury verdicts in favor of the Plaintiffs
is that we will be liable for all the cost and
attorneys' fees, because that's what a 1983
action does.
A plaintiff's lawyer can gun for the case,
can file a case, run the case and get a dollar
and potentially get his attorneys' fees paid
for.
We have been unsuccessful in attempting to
settle the case in the two mediations and in the
number of conversations that have occurred with
opposing counsel. Undoubtedly, the reason we
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have been unable to settle the case, we have got
an attorney's fee issue. One dollar plus
awarded, we are going to have to pay attorney's
fees.
I have engaged Mr. -- we have had two
mediations; offers were made. We have not -- it
was very difficult to get offers back out of
them.
Their claims in total, which i think are
ludicrous and it's not going to come anywhere
close to this, in my considered opinion, based
upon the experience that I have had, and I don't
expect this case to go, to run away on me, but
the Erbacher damages that an economist could
puff up as best as he could are in the range of
$350,000, the Byrd damages are under the best
case scenario $250,000, and the Bullock damages
are essentially nominal. I can't even give you
a figure with respect to that.
Our own figuring is in their best case
scenarios based upon the economic reports that
we have are somewhere in the twenty -five
thousand range for Erbacher, $12,000 for Byrd.
These are what goes up. I will be
presenting a case in which I am saying to a
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jury: We don't believe there is any liability
whatsoever and thus no damages, but in the event
that you think there is liability, here is the
realistic damages. And we have worked real hard
on presenting the realistic side of it.
So juries often go to quotients, they
split differences on any number of things.
There is no court reporter in the jury
deliberation room, and we are not going to be
exactly sure how they arrived at some numbers
here that they put into some blanks on a piece
of paper.
Now, going into trial it is very important
to me as trial lawyer to be able to seize some
moments that may come.
I have settled cases. I was telling Tom
that one case I had went for nine years, went to
trial three times, never could get the case
settled until we got into trial, and after
making an opening defense case, after managing
an opening statement, after having the plaintiff
call the first witness and the first witness,
one of the parties, going through a blistering
cross examination, I was able to settle the case
that night for a lot less than what I offered
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six weeks earlier.
I want to be in a posture to be able to
settle this case if it becomes opportune, and I
really don't want to be -- I have seen the
horrible situation of a lawyer out in the
hallway of a courthouse, even with a case going
the other way, trying to raise up an insurance
carrier adjuster to try to get authority, trying
to describe what's happening in the courtroom.
And so I want to have the ability to talk
to somebody, and what I am proposing is that
your city manager be given some authority so
that I can report to her and ask for some of
that authority to settle the case if I can.
Let me say that I don't expect a
settlement. I don't expect that I can settle
the case, having discussed this case a number of
times with opposing counsel.
Mr. Russo?
MR. RUSSO: Why are we taking the position
in this case revolving around the Clinton letter
and all that kind of stuff? Because the bottom
line actually is, is when the administration did
change, I myself as mayor at the time met with
all the department heads and basically told them
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that everybody has a place to work here except
that, you know, we might have some budget
constraints because we found out about the
deficit in the golf course that we didn't know
about, and that we are going to have some
reorganization but we are going to try our best
to make :sure that everybody has a position.
Amongst -- of course, you know Mr. Orr
was the city manager for many many years, and I
would say probably 90 percent of the people that
worked here were an ally of his, and we didn't
go and dismiss 90 percent of the people that
worked in the city.
It was -- I mean, this was not a point of
any political retaliation or whatever. It was
just a point of we reorganized this department.
The people that left, we didn't replace. We
moved Julia Byrd out to the golf course. We did
try to find her employment. And, unfortunately,
at the time there wasn't any employment for
Linda Erbacher to go to.
MR. WATTERSON: You are preaching to the
choir. I believe your case. Neither one of us
are going to decide it. And things happen in a
courtroom, and some strangers are going to
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decide this case. And they don't always --
First of all,,even the best trial gets a
result, and that doesn't mean that the result is
going to stay when going on appeal. We are
going to get a result here. We are going to get
our form of justice. We are going to find some
people who you don't know that are going to
decide the credibility of this case and who
should get what.
we say all the time in that courtroom the
judge will charge this jury to leave sympathy
behind. But there is not a lawyer who tries a
case who will tell you that that's exactly --
that that is what is done.
I have engaged in some jury simulations.
On a particular case we hire jurors and we put
them in a room and we try our cases before them.
Then we watch them on videotape and find out
what's important to them. And it is hair -
raising, you know, what they saw in it, what
they reacted to. It's different from the
lawyers, what was important to the lawyers.
So I agree with you.
MR. RUSSO: After the OJ trial --
MS. FURTADO: Hopefully they will remember
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Oliver North.
MR. RUSSO: I think I am a lot more
educated today in trials and law. I never
realized that they hire people to analyze the
jury during the trial. I mean, those things I
never realized. I understand that.
But are we going to take, I mean, the
position number one of what was said and a fall-
back position saying that even if you don't
believe what is being presented to you, that you
go back to your position, or are you just
dealing with the legal?
I can't tell you your business, because
you know your business...
MR. WATTERSON: I am going to cover all
the bases, and some of the things I do and don't
do will depend on getting to know the jury.
Julia Byrd didn't lose her job at all.
Had anybody had a notion that we were going to
punish her, fire her in retaliation for things
that she had done, then she would have been
fired. She wouldn't have been transferred out
to the golf course.
Now, they will say: Well, she was
transferred out to the golf course because it
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was fairly predictable that sooner or later the
golf course would be not a public job and farmed
out to a private operator and that that was
known and this was just an easier, simpler way
of accomplishing getting rid of her, but a
little bit later, certainly getting her out of
the city hall.
MR. RUSSO: It's a shame, because I
personally think that was a good move for her
because she would have been away from the stress
that she would have had day to day. To be
honest, I thought that was perfect for her; she
would be away from it and she could do the job.
MR. WATTERSON: You are talking me into
calling you as a witness here.
Various people are going to make arguments
to what these facts mean. That's the way it is
here. You can take the same case, argued by the
same lawyers, administered by the same judge and
throw a different jury in each time and get a
lot of different results.
Now, this one is an excellent trial case.
It could go this way or it could go that way.
There is some cases -- the law firm did a case
last year, it was the Gardens Country Club case
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against Palm Beach County. In that case I felt
secure about my position enough to tell the
county commission not a dime, we never offered a
penny in that case. And that was because I felt
that I was going to win. I couldn't see the
possibility of losing, our case was so strong.
I am not saying that in this case. This
is an excellent trial that could go one way or
the other way.
MS. FURTADO: It's not only -- because I
have been through with this with my son -- it's
not only just the jury, but sometimes a judge
makes an incorrect ruling, direction -- is that
what they call it? -- to a jury. And in our
case, zippo, brain damage, zippo, because of
what I am saying.
So it can happen even on the judge's
level, too. There is a lot of things that can
go amuck that shouldn't go amuck in the best of
cases, cut- and -dry cases.
MR. WATTERSON: We don't have a legal
system that can totally rule out the potential
of error. It is administered by human beings.
A lot of errors are corrected on appeal.
We have a system in which the guilty can get off
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and the innocent can get convicted. We try as
best we can for some form of justice. It is the
procedure itself,'for a jury to come in and
assess a case. It is our justice. We are going
to live with the results.
As I approached this trial, I realized I
really don't have the ability to settle the case
if it comes up.
MR. CLARK: What kind of settlement
authority are you looking for?
MR. WATTERSON: I don't want any
settlement authority. I want you to designate
somebody here and give that somebody authority
and make me have to argue and explain and get
it.
MR. CLARK: You don't want to know
basically -- I am asking seriously.
MR. WATTERSON: That part doesn't make any
difference to me.
MS. HERAKOVICH: Terry, does the fact that
they currently have some costs that they are
responsible for enter into the equation?
MR. WATTERSON: Oh, yes, I am not going to
-- let's take the Bullock case, for example.
All three of those people owe us
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attorneys' fees. We have gotten the order from
2
the court deciding the entitlement. The order
3
says they owe us attorneys' fees. We will have
4
a hearing on attorneys' fees.
5
Now, I haven't gone and taxed the
6
attorneys' fees, because it's not appropriate
7
for me to do that, because to prove up my
8
attorneys' fees I may have to show them
9
something called billings and I may even have to
10
take the witness stand myself. And that is
11
really not a smart move to have your lawyer take
12
the witness stand and have to explain what he
13
was directed to do.
14
MS. FURTADO: Before trial.
15
MR. WATTERSON: That is correct.
16
After this trial we will have the
17
attorneys' fees hearing. They owe us money and
18
we will get a taxation of some amount of money.
19
Their tactic would be to try -- our tactic
20
will be to get the full and fair amount of
21
attorneys' fees that were attributable to this
22
case by their absolute wrongful and wise guy,
23
uncalled for addition of Bobbie Herakovich as a
24
party to this case.
25
The only time you do that is if you mean
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to harass somebody, and they mean to try to take
2
the decision -maker of the city and put her into
3
a position, because of her own fear of the case,
4
that she comes to you and says let's settle it.
5
That was a wrong move and we took a strong
6
stand. The judge was having a hard time seeing
7
it, and we were fighting her desire to let it
8
all go to the jury.
9
Perhaps you know that she originally ruled
10
against us on the thing. We took an appeal of
11
it, and I stood in court saying, "You made the
12
wrong decision and you're going to be reversed.
13
Now, if you want to, we will ask the appellate
14
court to relinquish jurisdiction so you can
15
correct it." And to her credit she could
16
correct it. She did that, and granted a summary
17
judgment. It is actually in the city's favor,
18
although it takes Robbie out of it. But the
19
award will be in your favor.
20
Now, how much it is, that's my bargaining.
21
I will sit down and bargain this thing. I will
22
use my big number to say you, you, you are going
23
to pay big numbers.
24
I am not sure who is going to care about
25
it. I've got a sense that I am dealing with
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people who, asset -wise, I am not sure they care
about the judgment that I am going to get
against them.
If they lose this case and they come, that
jury comes in with a zero, we are -- every dime
in attorneys' fees we are going to be able to
tax against them. These people have got the
risk of walking away from this thing with
hundreds of thousands of dollars taxed against
them.
What do they care? Let me worry.
we have got people basically with homes --
take Julia Byrd. I don't really know her asset
situation, but I presume she is like most
people; she has got a home that she owns jointly
with her husband that is not attachable, and
plus it's homestead. Linda Erbacher, I don't
think she was married last time I saw her, has a
home that is her homestead, it is not
attachable. I haven't even focussed on the
Bullock one. I don't know about my
collectibility factor on it.
Let me worry. I am going to go to the
trial being represented by a lawyer who thinks
if I get a nominal situation, a dollar, then I
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can attach the attorneys' fees back against the
2
city.
3
Now, during the trial I might have people
4
get real scared that -- people don't like being
5
attacked, and they are, all three of these
6
people are going to have to take the stand and
7
be subjected to cross examination. And so long
S
as I do it right, I may get them where they may
9
think twice about going further with this case,
10
rather than having -- having it decided by the
11
jury, rather than risking a zero and the
12
feelings of embarrassment themselves.
13
Because for cne of the three Plaintiffs
14
this isn't money for her. This is Julia. This
15
has nothing to do with money.
16
MR. CLARK: Vindication.
17
MR. WATTERSON: In some way.
18
And this is consistent with conversations
19
that I have had with the other lawyer. Because
20
several months ago I tried real hard to derail
21
this case and tried to stop this from happening.
22
This opens up old wounds in this city. I don't
23
really like spending my time or sending a bill
24
on this thing. It has to do with emotions that
25
are involved in this case.
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But I have been unable to stop this. We
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are going to go to trial whether it's now or
3
November.
4
MR. RUSSO: Julia comes in here almost
5
every Thursday night with a tape recorder, so I
6
do believe it is more than just money for her.
7
To be honest, I feel sorry for her.
8
MR. WATTERSON: She's the one I feel the
9
most sorry for myself. I would like to I say to
10
opposing counsel if this woman was my client, I
11
would be trying to keep her out of that
12
courtroom and going through what she will go
13
through. And opposing counsel agrees.
14
But clients call the shots.
15
MR. RUSSO: I really feel sorry for her.
16
MS. FURTADO: But as a juror, if I was
17
someone,that felt that loyal to someone, there
18
is no way I would want to work for a different
19
administration.
20
MR. WATTERSON: Of course. If loyalty is
21
so strong...
22
MR. JABLIN: Unless you were doing it for
23
other motives.
24
MS. FURTADO: Exactly. As a juror I would
25
say if this is loyalty based on loyalty and not
i
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money, why would someone want to work with the
2
oppposing administration?
3
MR. RUSSO: Lauren, there are many cases
4
when things happen to individuals and they can't
5
give it up and they can't move on. And certain
6
individuals can move on.
7
MS. FURTADO: I am just looking at it from
8
a juror --
9
MR. RUSSO: A traumatic experience. This
10
was unfortunately a very traumatic experience,
11
that election and Mr. Orr leaving and all of
12
that went on.
13
This poor lady. Like I said, I feel very
14
sorry for her. Because she does come in here
15
every Thursday night and she's here with a
16
recorder, and to be honest, I think all of us
17
would say we would rather be home watching
18
Seinfeld and ER. It's just a shame that she --
19
like I say, it is her I feel the worst for --
20
ME. FURTADO: Not me. I would much rather
21
be here.
22
MR. RUSSO: -- only because of the whole
23
situation.
24
I think we should come up with a dollar
25
amount that we have the right to settle. I
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mean, my number I guess is somewhere around ten
to twenty thousand, if you are going to -- it's
going to cost us that much anyway to litigate
the thing. But I don't know what --
MR. WATTERSON: Ten to twenty, you might
as well tell me nothing.
MR. CLARK: Yes.
that before.
Because we have offered
MR. JABLIN: Yes.
MR. WATTERSON: I will tell you what I
suggest, and when you hear it, please don't
think that I am frivolous with people's money,
because I am not.
I have cases which I get authorized lots
of money and never think that the other side's
case is worth me offering the first dime. I've
got some cases now where insurance companies are
giving me settlement authority that I haven't
put a dollar on the table yet.
But I would think that somebody authorized
the -- let me tell you my basis before I
surprise you with the number.
The basis is that, again, if some damages
come out, then I am going to have attorneys'
fees to deal with. The attorneys, fees will be,
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as I hope, less than what we have charged
because we have worked this case a lot harder,
because they have got the benefit of the law
going for them. But that's a price.
I would like $100,000 given to Bobbie
Herakovich --
MR. CLARK: Yes.
MR. WATTERSON: -- to cover everything,
which includes attorneys' fees. And I intend to
conduct my dealings on the basis of -- not on a
per case basis, but on a here is twenty
thousand, you figure out how to spend it between
the three, between the four of you; with the
lawyer and three plaintiffs, you all go and
figure it out. And then see whether it goes
incremental.
I won't put the first dollar on the table
if it's going a certain way at this trial.
MS. MONROE: You would wait until the
jurors are chosen?
MR. WATTERSON: Yes. In this particular
case, the way dealings have gone in the past, I
wouldn't show up,at trial saying, "Do you want
to settle." That's not my tactic.
I am going to walk in there like I am
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going to start this case and finish this case,
because I don't think that words like settlement
or dollars could come out of my mouth until I am
done with an opening statement in this case and
a witness.
I have no idea who the first witness is.
we have some wild stuff. We have -- we might
see this case --
I believe that this case -- and if the
public or a newspaper reporter ever shows up
here to read this, then let them hear me say
this -- this case is John Orr's case. John Orr
is in the middle of this thing. He is a
consultant to these people. The testimony is
that these people go and they talk with John
Orr. Linda Erbacher goes by John Orr's house,
having discussions about what to do. When she
was employed by Greenacres she went to Mr. Orr
in order to bitch what they did in Greenacres
and compare how they did things differently.
This is John Orr's case, and I might see
John Orr come out of this case, and if he comes
out and testifies in this case, I don't know
what's going to happen.
I can tell you that I have worked an awful
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lot of hours on trying to set the different
tactics that I might have to use in this case.
But one thing I am resolved on, is I am not
going to cream these women. I am not going to
do it.
I can do it. I can get there and I can
waste them all. That's a wrong tactic. If I do
that, I will be creating the sympathy I am
afraid of.
So a particular type of demeanor is going
to have to be adopted, and I am going to have to
trust the jury I get here to see the common
sense.
Infecting this case, and you should know
it and I want you to know it, is the timing
aspects with respect to when this occurred.
These things happened to occur on the same date
as the retirement party, and we are stuck with
that fact.
It kind of doe:, look -- it will be used
and it will be said over and over that there is
no better evidence of a desire to punish these
people than the timing of it. What a message
they send to John Orr and his cronies at the
Radisson than to send over the employees of Palm
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Beach Gardens, former key employees to share
2
with the celebratory going -away retirement party
3
the news that two of his key supporters have
4
been terminated in the city, while the hotel was
5
surrounded by police officers taking names for a
6
political enemies list.
7
That's their case. That's my job to try
8
to undo that. But I am stuck with that fact.
9
And during the course of this case, I can
10
say that I can't tell you. All I can do is
11
promise you that I have worked this case and I
12
am prepared for this case and I am going to do
13
the best job I can. But somebody else is going
14
to decide it, not Joe Russo and not me. I have
15
said it's a classic, wonderful trial case. it
16
really is.
17
MS. FURTADO: Terry --
18
MR. WATTERSON: I don't know how it's
19
going turn out.
20
MS. FURTADO: -- you are talking a hundred
21
thousand across the board?
22
MR. WATTERSON: Yes.
23
MS. FURTADO: I will support that.
24
MR. CLARK: I think that's a good number.
25
MR. RUSSO: I am going to be the only one
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that's not going to support it, then.
MS. FURTADO: I am not happy with it.
MR. RUSSO: I will not. I don't mind
settling things where there are gray area issues
and so forth, but when an employee wants to hold
the city hostage, and this is what it is, I just
believe that it's an unreasonable amount of
money. That's one thing. To me a hundred
thousand dollars is a lot of money.
MR. WATTERSJN: I am not disagreeing with
you. I agree with you.
MR. RUSSO: Don't get me wrong. If you
came to me one week in the case, you sat here
and said we have to have an emergency meeting,
you sat here and you're telling me it don't look
good, then I have a whole different approach.
MR. WATTERSON: I understand.
MR. RUSSO: What I am saying is: I would
like to rely on the system and rely on yourself,
because we didn't do anything wrong in this case
and I wouldn't want the taxpayers to think that
we did something wrong and we spent a hundred
thousand and tried to make something right.
MS. FURTADO: Joe, if I hadn't been
through what I had been through within the last
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60 days, I would agree with you a hundred
percent.
But I know in the last year I have had two
experiences, and I know the system is very
flawed and I know what it's also like being an
attorney and being in a situation where you have
got to make a snap decision one way or another.
I agree with you on everything you said a
hundred percent. I would feel much more
comfortable if it was already ongoing, because I
too feel there is no gray areas here.
I hope the jury remembers Fawn Hall and
Oliver North.
MR. WATTERSON: I am only talking about
authorization. I am not telling you that I am
ever going to put a dollar down on this thing.
It's just that I wish to be released of the
awkward situation'of not being able to take
advantage of something while it's happening.
I have seen lawyers at public telephones
in hallways trying to find somebody to listen to
them, that cases are going bad or that the
opportunity has arisen...
MR. CLARK: You need to have some --
MR. WATTERSON: That's not a good idea for
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a lawyer to go off without some flexibility.
MR. CLARK: You need to have that, Terry.
MR. RUSSO: Who is in favor of that?
MS. MONROE: I am, reluctantly, like
everyone else, reluctantly.
MR. JABLIN: It's all reluctantly. I
would like to side with you on this, Joe.
MR. RUSSO: I am more the negotiator.
MS. FURTADO% I am against it, but only
because of what I have been through, I have to
be for it.
MR. RUSSO: Again, if you came in to the
trial and came away, it might be different.
Is there anything else we need to do?
MR. WATTERSON: I don't want to get them
any money, I will tell that you.
MS. HERAKOVICH: I have one question.
MR. JABLIN: Please don't, don't give it
to them. Make them earn it.
MS. HERAKOVICH: Procedurally, in the past
the council has given that authority to one of
the city council themselves.
Does it make it any easier or more
difficult on you whether it be myself or one of
the council people?
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MR. WATTERSON: It's really up --
MS. HERAKOVICH: It doesn't matter to me.
MR. WATTERSON: It doesn't matter to me.
I would like you to have it, because you
you are the most accessible person. You are the
person that I am going to be letting know what's
going on.
I have made a decision that I am not going
to have Bobbie sitting in the courtroom every
day. I don't want her feeling like she's on
trial, because she is not.
MS. FURTADO: I agree.
MS. MONROE: She did got a job could do.
MR. WATTERSON: I am going to say in the
opening statement that I've got people back at
the city, you will see various faces show up
from time to time, but it's a busy city and the
people have jobs to do and there won't be some
mock human being there sitting next to me at the
counsel table. But it is a city of people,
human beings.
MR. RUSSO: Everybody wants to have Bobbie
do it, then.
MR. WATTERSON: I would like her.
MR. CLARK: Yes.
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MR. WATTERSON: Unless you have done --
MR. RUSSO: It would only be David. David
is our settler of cases and lawsuits.
MR. WATTERSON: When are you going on
vacation?
MR. RUSSO: The end of July, July 19.
MS. MONROE: I read between those lines.
MR. CLARK: We better get back in there
before the Lake Catherine people.
MR. WATTERSON: I want to thank you for
giving me a chance to come over and talk about
it.
What I know is sometimes in these cases
you really want your client to sit there and see
the effort, because that's basically all we can
guarantee. And representing government,
sometimes it's kind of lonely in court and your
clientele is not seeing it. They just see the
result.
And we have noted that. We have won most
of the cases. That county case last year never
had anybody from the county watching. They
don't know what happened.
We have worked on this thing.
MR. RUSSO: This won't be on CNN.
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MR. WATTERSON: We better get off the
record.
(Thereupon, at 7:50 o'clock p.m., the
meeting was adjourned.)
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37
C E R T I F I C A T E
THE STATE OF FLORIDA,)
COUNTY OF PALM BEACH.)
I, Jane Pastore, Registered Professional
Reporter, do hereby certify that I was authorized to
and did report the above meeting at the time and place
herein stated, and that it is a true and correct
transcription of my stenotype notes taken during said
meeting.
Dated this 5th day of August, 1996.
t
Jane Pastore, RPR
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