HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Council 102193CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
CITY OF PALM BEACH GARDENS
OCTOBER 21, 1993
7:30 P.M.
The Regular Meeting of the City Council of the City of
Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, was called to order by Mayor
Russo at 7:30 P.M. in the Assembly Room of the Municipal
Complex, 10500 North Military Trail, Palm Beach Gardens,
Florida, and opened with the Pledge of Allegiance to the
Flag.
ROLL CALL The City Clerk called the roll and present were Mayor
Russo, Vice Mayor Monroe, Councilman Jablin, and
Councilman Clark. Councilwoman Furtado arrived at 7:58
P.M.
JPRESENTATIONS
Certificates were presented by Mayor Russo to Police
Officers Richard Facchine and David O'Neal who were
promoted to Lieutenant, and to Police Officers Robert
Artola and Al Hallonquist who were promoted to Sergeant.
Ronnie Blackshear, Senior Planner for the Metropolitan
Planning Organization of Palm Beach County spoke
concerning the Local Transit Service Feasibility Study
they conducted for the cities of Palm Beach Gardens, Boca
Raton, Delray Beach, Boynton Beach, Riviera Beach, and
Jupiter. Consultant Cliff Hayden stated that the two
objectives of the study were to look at existing CoTran
systems to see if there were possible route changes that
would serve the cities better; and in conjunction with
0
COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, 10/21/93 PAGE 2
that to determine whether a new circulator system in
addition to the one being operated by CoTran would be
advantageous. Three recommendations were made to
improve service within the City with little or no
increase in cost until such time as the new service
offered by CoTran would be implemented. 1) Rerouting
CoTran route 1 -C to provide service from West Palm Beach
to Jupiter via Federal Highway with deviation at PGA
Boulevard both north and south to Gardens Mall. 2)
Implementation of a new route originating at the Senior
Citizens Service Center on Northlake Boulevard, north on
Military Trail, east on Holly Drive, north on Gardens
East Boulevard, through the Community College to Gardens
Mall, then east via Florida Boulevard and Prosperity
Farms Road, terminating at Donald Ross Road and
connecting with modified route 1 -C at both the Gardens
Mall and at Gardens East Shopping Center. 3) Provide
para- transit service using one lift -- equipped van or mini-
bus to serve only City residents with trip demands of
both origin and destination within the City limits which
would be funded by either contracting with the private
sector or through City resources. Councilwoman Furtado
suggested inclusion of the Northcorp /Loehmann's Plaza
area on one of the bus routes being considered.
ITEMS BY THE
TY MANAGER At the request of City Manager Herakovich, it was the
COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, 10/21/93
ITEMS BY MAYOR
AND CITY COUNCIL
Councilwoman Furtado
PAGE 3
consensus of the Council that preliminary interviews for
City Attorney be scheduled for Tuesday, November 9. The
City Manager would then conduct reference checks and
followup and the final selection would be made by the
Council at the December 2, 1993 Council Meeting.
Councilwoman Furtado recommended each Council member
"adopt" a Palm Beach Gardens school and attend their
adopted school's PTA meeting once a month as a liason to
keep the Council informed of that school's problems.
Councilwoman Furtado will bring to the Council a list of
dates when these PTA organizations meet. It was the
consensus of the Council that flex time would be offered
to city employees so they would be able to attend their
child's school for parent - teacher conferences, etc.
Councilwoman Furtado announced that SAC, a newly formed
group for the improvement of schools, will meet November
1, 1993, at the high school, and requested attendance by
representatives from the Palm Beach Gardens business
community. Councilwoman Furtado commended William Upshaw
of the Mariott Hotel, who has donated use of the Mariott
and free soft drinks to Palm Beach Gardens High School
for their Homecoming dance, so that the school only has
to furnish a disk jockey and decorations. Councilwoman
COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, 10/21/93 PAGE 4
Furtado reported the Task Force for the PGA Boulevard and
AlA flyover are now in the environmental site design
stage of development, and this project has been moved to
number one priority on the Palm Beach County Metropolitan
Planning Organization list for implementation, which will
relieve much of the current congestion caused by traffic
stopping for trains. Councilwoman Furtado reported her
opposition to proposed spending of $200,000 to $500,000
per railroad crossing for improved barrier arms which
would completely cover the intersection. The consensus
of the Council was to accept Councilwoman Furtado's
recommendation to write a letter to the Florida State
Legislature stating local municipalities should again be
able to designate quiet zones with no train whistles
between the hours of 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. in residential
neighborhoods if lights and barrier arms exist at an
intersection. It was Councilwoman Furtado's suggestion
that Lighthouse, Burns and PGA Boulevard train crossing
intersections be designated as a quiet zone if this rule
could be reinstated.
Vice Mayor Monroe Vice Mayor Monroe stated that the Palm Beach County
Planning Forum Steering Committee would be working to put
groups together to work on education problems.
Councilman Jablin At the next formal meeting of the City Council,
Councilman Jablin will bring to the Council a
COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, 10/21/93 PAGE 5
recommendation from the new Landfill Committee for a new
name for the Committee which would more accurately
reflect the 3 areas of concern this committee will
handle: 1: Landfill, 2: Lilac Street water fields
from Seacoast, and 3: concern for clusters of cancer in
this area. A Solid Waste Authority representative gave
the Landfill Committee an overview of The Dames and Moore
study. This study is only data and the Landfill
Committee is dedicated to getting opinions as to what
conclusions should be drawn from the data from various
sources as well as from the DEP, which is the regulatory
agency. A letter was received from the President of the
Palm Beach Gardens Association which is concerned with
cancer clusters.
Mayor Russo Mayor Russo stated he will meet with the County
Commissioners the first week in November regarding the
golf course. City Manager Herakovich stated a completed
RFP should be received back from PGA tomorrow. Mayor
Russo stated he would like things finalized and in
operation by the last week in November.
COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC
Sam Carsillo Sam Carsillo stated, regarding the reinstatement of the
1982 legislation which allowed local municipalities to
control the train whistles within their city boundaries,
he would get together with the City Manager to send a
COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, 10/21/93
PAGE 6
letter to the Federal Railroad Administration in
Washington, would write to his senators and congressmen
on behalf of labor, and would contact the rest of the
unions to form a coalition to also send letters.
Councilwoman Furtado stated the MPO is also writing a
letter as a governing body, and she requested that
individual municipalities also write letters. Mr.
Carsillo stated that Railroad Consultants, Inc. is
experimenting with a prototype automated horn system, and
he has asked the union secretary to send them a letter
requesting information. However, the Federal Railroad
Administration and the Florida East Coast Railroad are
not prepared to endorse this system until more
experimentation is completed. When that report is
received, Mr. Carsillo will report the results to the
City Council.
Mr. Carsillo also stated he spoke to Jerry Brown
regarding the need for sidewalks at the proposed library
location behind the court house on Campus Drive. Mayor
Russo stated a letter would be written to Mr. Brown to
see if money is available for these sidewalks. Mr.
Carsillo stated at the sidewalk underneath the I -95
underpass on Burns Road there is a palm tree that needs
to be removed, the stripes are wrong and the sidewalk
needs to be behind the column. Mr. Carsillo offered to
COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, 10/21/93 PAGE 7
take the City Engineer to this location to show him the
problem.
CONSENT AGENDA Vice Mayor Monroe made a motion to approve Consent Agenda
item 3 proclaiming 11/7- 11/13/93 as "Key Club Week" and
item 4 proclaiming 10/23- 10/31/93 as "National Red Ribbon
Week ". Motion was seconded by Councilwoman Furtado and
unanimously approved. Councilman Clark made a motion
that the minutes of the 10/7/93 City Council Meeting be
changed under Items for Discussion "The Sanctuary PUD":
change the sentence beginning "It was decided to provide
access to Fire /Rescue........." to read "It was decided
to explore providing access to Fire /Rescue........ ".
Motion was seconded by Councilwoman Furtado and
unanimously approved. Motion was made by Vice Mayor
Monroe to change the minutes of the 10/14/93 City Council
Meeting as follows: to change "palms" to "trees" on page
2; to change "Woodberry Lakes" to "Gardens of Woodberry"
on page 2 and to change "....existing trees that have
been trimmed in other than the normal shape...." to "....
existing trees that have been trimmed in a rectangle
shape....". Motion was seconded by Councilman Clark and
unanimously approved.
Resolution 124, 1993
Motion to approve Resolution 124, 1993 for the
COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, 10/21/93
RESOLUTION 125, 1993
PAGE 8
appointment of a Human Resource Director and a Finance
Director and salary and fringe benefits was made by
Councilman Clark, seconded by Councilman Jablin. City
Manager Herakovich stated Kent Olsen will begin
employment on November 18 and Jim Waldron will begin
employment on November 1. In response to a question by
Councilwoman Furtado, City Manager Herakovich explained
the concept of central purchasing, and that the Finance
Director would address purchasing concerns such as doing
the best possible job in getting competitive bids, and
would make sure that contracts are reviewed to save as
much money as possible. The City Manager also stated
that the organizational structure for all Departments is
presently being reviewed, and that changes would be made
where needed. Vice Mayor Monroe stated her concern that
no salary adjustments should be made in these positions.
Motion then passed unanimously.
It was the consensus of the Council to approve Resolution
125, 1993, appointing Vice Mayor Monroe as a member and
Councilwoman Furtado as an alternate for the Northern
Palm Beach County /South Martin County Planning Forum
Implementation Steering Committee. Vice Mayor Monroe's
appointment was conditioned with the stipulation that she
would continue the appointment until she felt she could
COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, 10/21/93 PAGE 9
no longer serve, and at that time Mayor Russo would fill
the appointment. Motion to approve was made by
Councilman Jablin and seconded by Councilman Clark. The
motion was unanimously approved.
RESOLUTION 126, 1993
After a discussion of the necessary qualifications of a
resident to serve as a member of the Northern Palm Beach
County /South Martin County Planning Forum Implementation
Steering Committee, motion was made by Councilman Clark
to approve Resolution 126, 1993 with Dr. Milton Stern as
the resident member, seconded by Councilwoman Furtado,
and unanimously approved by the City Council.
.RESOLUTION 127, 1993
Vice Mayor Monroe made a motion to approve Resolution
127, 1993, Granting a Conditional Use of a Security
Apartment at the Palm Beach Gardens Business Park.
Motion was seconded by Councilman Clark and unanimously
approved by the City Council.
RESOLUTION 128, 1993
After a lengthy discussion, Resolution 128, 1993,
approval of Special Event Application for Northern Palm
Beaches Chamber of Commerce Circus 11/17 - 11/21/93, was
tabled for next meeting. Louis Kerstin of 302 Sun
Terrace Court, a member of the Lake Catherine Homeowners
Association, spoke for himself and for the neighborhood
COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, 10/21/93
PAGE 10
and stated that residents of the neighborhood were not
aware of the circus or that it would be located virtually
in their backyards since the site submitted for approval
was the northwest corner of Northlake Boulevard and
MacArthur Boulevard; that their homeowners association
needed to be sent a letter stating the type of circus,
the number of shows, the expected attendance, the number
of cars and where they would be parked, and the
anticipated noise level. He stated that approximately 50
families live adjacent to the proposed circus site. Fred
Suprey of Lake Catherine also gave his opinion that the
other residents did not know about the circus. Dave
Talley, Executive Director of Northern Palm Beach Chamber
of Commerce, spoke concerning how the site had been
selected. He will meet with the Lake Catherine
Homeowners Association and try to work out the concerns
of the residents. It was the consensus of the Council to
table Resolution 128, 1993, to be discussed again either
at next week's Workshop meeting or in two weeks at the
next regular meeting of the City council, and that if the
residents' concerns cannot be solved, then the Council
would not vote in favor of the location. vice Mayor
Monroe requested that Rich Walton look into the land west
of Gardens Mall to see why it is no longer available for
such events, and Mr. Talley will also look into alternate
COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, 10/21/93 PAGE it
locations. Mayor Russo stated the City Council would
work with concerned parties to find a solution to the
problem.
RESOLUTION 129, 1993
The City Council discussed Resolution 129, 1993, Approval
of Special Event Application for Festa Italiana. Mayor
Russo expressed his concern that the proposed types and
numbers of rides and games of chance would make the
atmosphere of this festival similar to the South Florida
Fair carnival atmosphere, which he felt was inappropriate
within the City of Palm Beach Gardens. Randy Carillo,
President of Morgan Entertainment, stated the contractor
for the rides felt the were rides appropriate for a
family type festival and not a fair. Mr_ Carillo stated
that festival hours had been worked out with CAN, that
advertising would not mention Ryder Cup Boulevard and
that patrol officers would be stationed at the entrance
to Ryder Cup Boulevard to direct cars into the parking
area and not into Ryder Cup Boulevard and, when exiting,
cars would be directed away from Ryder Cup Boulevard.
Mayor Russo expressed the desire that this event should
be worked out to the satisfaction of all parties in order
to be able to hold similar events in the future on this
same site. Mr. Carillo stated that volunteers from LEAF,
Law Enforcement Assistance Foundation, a group of
COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, 10/21/93
PAGE 12
community leaders that raises funds throughout the year
for police officers who have been hurt in the line of
duty or for the families of officers who have been killed
in the line of duty, would be selling beer and would
follow rules and regulations for doing so; The Arts
People of Jupiter Tequesta would provide 50 to 100 arts
and crafts booths, and their proceeds would be used to
run their organization and to provide scholarships.
DARE, a non - profit organization, would receive 20 cents
on each ticket, and MacArthur Foundation would also give
a percentage of their lease proceeds back to the DARE
program. Entertainment will be provided by Italian
artists and Italian music will be played. Games of
chance outlined by Mr. Carillo were basketball shoot,
softball and milk cans, shoot out star bb guns, pinball
derby race, shoot at water balloons, star dart, balloon
dart. Rides includes flying bobs, fun house, roloplanes,
giant ferris wheel, merry -go- round, sizzler, and spider
all of which would be 25 -35 feet in height, except the
giant ferris wheel which would be approximately 45 feet
high. Mr. Carillo pointed out that surrounding trees are
approximately 65 feet high so that residents would not be
able to see rides from their homes. Milton Stern,
representing CAN offered his oppositions to the proposed
Festa Italiana. (Copy of comments attached.)
COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, 10/21/93 PAGE 13
Councilwoman Furtado expressed her concern that we need
to provide for Palm Beach Gardens teenagers, as well as
the young children. Attorney Nick Lioce, representing
Festa Italiana, stated he had followed the directions of
the Counci. Mayor Russo expressed his feeling that if
the council gave approvals at the meeting when he was not
there then the council should honor that. Councilwoman
Furtado stated her belief that the council had intended
that the promotor was to go forward. Since the residents
of PGA need to be notified and their views need to be
made known, Festa representatives will meet with CAN and
try to work out their concerns. However, the City
Council will be the final arbitrator. At the suggestion
of City Attorney Baldwin it was the consensus of the
Council to add to the contract a new Paragraph 9 which
would state "On or before November 4, 1993, Morgan
Entertainment, Inc. shall present a list of rides, sizes
of rides, and the games of chance, and secure the
approval of the City Council." Thereupon, Vice Mayor
Monroe made a motion to approve Resolution 129, 1993 and
to include the revisions of the contract as read into the
record by Attorney Baldwin. Motion was seconded by
Councilman Clark. Councilman Jablin stated his position
of voting for the resolution because he felt the contract
as written would give the City Council the ability to
COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, 10/21/93
—ORDINANCES
ORDINANCE 21, 1993
PAGE 14
govern the types and sizes of rides and the games of
chance in the future and he would like to create an
attitude of having an excellent event so they will be
invited back next year. Mayor Russo stated his position
that he also wanted to have an excellent event and to see
them come back next year, however, since he was not at
the original meeting in August and not involved in that
discussion, he did not feel comfortable in voting for the
Resolution without knowing the types and sizes of the
rides and the types of games of chance. Motion passed 4
to 1 with Mayor Russo voting nay for reasons previously
mentioned.
Motion was made by Vice Mayor Monroe that ordinance 21,
1993 be placed on first reading by title only, seconded
by Councilwoman Furtado. Bristol Ellington stated there
were 2 further conditions since the Planning and Zoning
Commission recommended approval. Mayor Russo asked that
the motion and second be withdrawn in order to go through
the changes. Motion and second were withdrawn. Mr.
Ellington stated condition 8, which in the resolution is
now a section, not a condition, deals with the amount of
money for recreational impact fees. That figure has been
reduced in order to reflect the reduction in the number
COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, 10/21/93
ORDINANCE 22, 1993
PAGE 15
of residential units proposed from 200 to 185. Condition
10, pertaining to effort to preserve trees located on
lots next to preserve areas and common areas, was revised
to include the area adjacent to the 50 -foot easement
along the eastern property line adjacent to the Shady
Lakes subdivision. He suggested page 9 of the ordinance
which called for completion by a date certain be changed
to reflect the City Council's adoption of Resolution 2,
1993 which no longer required the entire development to
be completed by a date certain. Mr. Ellington suggested
that the language stating "all development" be changed
to state that all infrastructure and common improvements
must be completed by a date certain, or bonded. After
discussion, it was the consensus of the Council that
staff work with City Attorney Baldwin to change the
language concerning these items and incorporate minor
changes for clarification. Per a concensus of the City
Council, the City Clerk read by title only on first
reading, Ordinance 21, 1993, creating a PUD known as
"Bent Tree ".
Per a concensus of the City Council, the City Clerk read
on first reading by title only, Ordinance 22, 1993,
creating a PUD known as "The Sanctuary ".
COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, 10/21/93 PAGE 16
ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION
COMFORT INN Since no representatives of Comfort Inn were present,
this item was removed from the agenda.
ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, the meeting
was adjourned at 11:06 P.M.
APPROVAL
l(AY J SEPH R. RUSSO
VIC =��l NROF�
r
C LIP'
COUNC ,.I } OMAN LAUREN FUnADO
COUNCILMAN DAVID CLARK
ATTEST: /
_,,LINDA V. KOSIER, CM , CITY CLERK
Verbatim of 10/21/93 City Council Minutes
Festa Italiana
(Property Owner Approval Discussion)
Requested by Councilwoman Furtado
Mayor Russo - Milt expressed his concern and I'm just going to
reiterate what he said over the way that they put
the press release out and so forth which Randy said
was a mistake all these different things. Look I
always say that communication is the biggest
problem that anybody ever has. I just think with
this festival right now we don't have any
communication, you told to go talk to CAN poor Milt
found out about it a day and a half ago. He's
trying to get a fix on things so he can go to the
rest of the members of CAN or the rest of the
members of PGA and say this is what we got out
there and'so forth. We've put, and you've got to
remember something I guess he was here that night
and they said they had to talk to CAN this man has
alot of pressure on him because they had to talk to
him he can't go and make a decision and he said
that. He's trying to gather up the facts. I don't
he's adversarial. I think he's trying to find out
the information and I don't think Randy is evading
him. I think we're all trying to do the same thing
here.
Councilman Jablin - Well that's what I'm saying.
Mayor Russo - That's what we need to do.
Councilman Jablin - Milton ... my apologies if...I don't mean to
offend you.
Mayor Russo - Don't get me wrong.. If just three members on this
council thinks we should just go with what we've
got I'll do it.
Councilman Jablin - I don't think we should vote on this tonight.
There no way we can vote on this tonight
because just like the circus I don't think
we've gotten input from the community. We've
gotten Milton and I think that's admirable and
I'm glad that your doing this Milt. I really
am. But I do think that we have to get a
concensus from the people in PGA National. We
also have to work out some. they can't work
this out. The event can't be done.
Mayor Russo - I'm going to go to Lauren and then you.
Councilwoman Furtado - Can't we because of the interest of time
and everything else has been worked out
as far as police, fire, permits.
Mayor Russo - Don't say that. They don't anything from our
building department. They don't have any plans.
There are still alot of things that need to be done
but they need to know the direction they're going.
Councilwoman Furtado - I think we need to...I don't know how to
properly word it Mr. Baldwin can maybe
help us out. That your pretty good
conditions that they need conditions of
da da da ... beacuse otherwise they can't
go forward. I mean we've gotten a month
left.
Mayor Russo - Don't give them conditions that they're not going
to be able to meet. What are your conditions gonna
be?
Councilwoman Furtado - Well I'm not saying... I'm just saying...
Councilman Jablin - You can't...I don't that you can work those
conditions out at this time. I don't think
you can do it. Lauren with all due respect I
can't see how you can do that.
Councilwoman Furtado - I'm just asking for direction.
Nick Lioce - I'd like to make a suggestion here. ;We've been
through these kind of things before. ;We've done
what you've asked us to do we've met with all of
your staff. We've had some final details to work
out. This was brought before the City Council and
it was approved. It was approved; with the
direction to meet with CAN. I don't know why CAN I
don't know why not the property owners association
of PGA National. But we met with CAN 'albeit two
days ago. But we met with him. We! see their
concerns, we have addressed their concerns. We
haven't actually acquiesced to all 1 of their
demands. But we've addressed all their concerns
and the only thing that we apart on is "two things
the rides and the size of the rides and the quote
unquote games of chance and I want to respond to
those two things. We have got a contract with
Deca. We've given you a list of the specific games
he's allowed. We've negotiated with him because of
his concerns expressed early on. We don't want any
rifle shoots, we don't want anythings ';where guys
are hawking people and grabbing their kids and
saying come over here and try me for a dollar a
game. We tryed to pick games that Deca agreed and
we agreed were family oriented ones. ' The ones
where you bring the whole fish home. Thats what my
kids love each time I take them to a festival. So
we tryed ... so we did those things with the
direction of this council and we entered into an
agreement. If we go back to them now and you want
to look at this list and say don't do that one or
don't do that one I think they'll actually ask for
that too. We not trying to do to anything but
prepare a game plan. With regards to the rides we
felt we addressed the issue, Joe, we really did.
We went to him we told him the problem. When he
went to set up his ferris wheel they told him to
take it down. Ok and he was told the only reason
was because everybody could see it and they didn't
want this blaring light thing that could be seen
from miles around. He came out and measured the
trees and all that other stuff. My point is that
we did use your direction. We have gone all the
way through the steps. We think we've addressed
your concerns but we can't answer your questions
specifically on the rides or the games of chance
unless you tell us which ones were having that you
don't like and like and go back to Deca and replace
them and we'll do that. But why we shouldn't be
able to afford I don't understand. The condition
is the games and we've got the list. Tell us the
ones you don't want. You've got the list of rides,
tell us which ones you don't want and we'll go back
with the Mayor and try to negotiate. But don't
tell us now after we've contracted with him after
we've signed the contract with the foundation and
paid the deposit. Signed the contract and
negotiated. We thought we had a contract from the
last meeting. We didn't know we were coming back
here. Its never been done before come back a
second time after we already had a contract signed
and we're really out on a limb now after all that.
Again, site plan concerns tell us what rides tell
us what games, we'll take them out.
Mayor Russo - Nick let me just make one comment. Number one
about big rides, we're going back in time. I was
here on that council, we just didn't want big rides
and it wasn't so much what they could see we just
didn't want that carnival kind of an atmosphere.
Number two, I apologize for...I only can go by what
I read in the minutes and I didn't read in the
minutes that you got an approval to do this and if
you did then this council needs to give you what
you want because if you got an approval somewhere
then you need to get it and you need to move on. I
didn't see that in the thing. What I saw in the
thing was that there was a concensus for Bobbie to
move forward and try and get a contract that
worked.
Councilwoman Furtado - Concensus...
Mayor Russo - Excuse me Lauren I need to speak without...
Councilwoman Furtado - I'm sorry I was not talking to you, I was
just talking to myself.
Mayor Russo - And you know if you did have a commitment, then we
need to honor that commitment because we can't go
back on that. I wasn't here for that meeting I
apologize and I don't know what here and what was
discussed and what rides. I only know when Randy
did come in the first meeting and what I basically
said and what I wanted and so forth and I still
want the same thing today that I wanted then. If
this council when I wasn't here told you something
different then this council needs to honor that and
make a motion and go forward with it and so forth.
I don't know I wasn't here so I'm going to have to
turn this over to somebody to help me. Linda you
were in charge then so I don't know what...
Vice Mayor Monroe - The memory fades that's why we have minutes.
I have a question though regarding working
with the PGA folks. How many people met, what
kind of notification was there that you all
were going to be meeting ... um ... wait a minute,
I'm just kind of thinking out loud I have to
ask these questions and Milt we were talking
about the games where you provided with a list
of rides and games and height. Because if
their gonna talk...I don't want to try to say
who says what. What I'm saying is if I were
one of the CAN people I would have wanted a
list of the rides and what their sizes are. I
would have wanted a description of the games
to be able to talk about them rather than
having to sit here tonight and have us start
discussing this. I like to hear ... you know
put a synopsis what they said they liked and
didn't like, not that we necessarily even
agree I might say to Milt, no I don't like
this at all.
Mayor Russo - Excuse me, I'm going to cut you off right now.
Don't ... what happened was we had a meeting
scheduled around three weeks ago with both myself,
Milton, and Randy for lunch and Randy had a
personal problem that he had to take care of. So
we couldn't meet. Then what happened was on ... we
scheduled a meeting a for this Tuesday or
Wednesday, whenever it was, and at that point was
the first time I had saw anything and Milt and seen
anything and he just brought all of this in. Milt
has not brought... nobody else out in PGA has seen
anything. So to be honest to say here tonight that
all the people in PGA are against this wouldn't be
fair and it wouldn't be fair to say that their all
favor of it. Because nobody's seen anything. What
Milt's job was was to try to get it together to
present to the people of what their actually doing,
what are we thinking, how can we deal with this and
how is this not going to impact our community. And
that's where we basically at and that's what that
contract says is that they were supposed to get
with CAN.
Vice Mayor Monroe - Now that's my concern. Whether it's no fault
of anybody's or not.
Councilman Jablin - I don't think it is.
Vice Mayor Monroe - OK and I'll accept that. What I'm saying is I
think that we're being put into an
uncomfortable position because the job is
incomplete, the clock is running. If I were
Mr. Stern I would have wanted this list, I
would have wanted the time to talk to some
other folks about this. So I'm not trying to
sabotage it I'm saying the clock is running
through no fault of our own and this needs to
be done. Some how we need a window in here to
get the job done and the city and he need the
same piece of paper to look at. If he doesn't
have, he says he doesn't I don't know if
whether you all gave him anything or not. I
would be reluctant to rely on someone's verbal
presentation, I want to see it in writing
that's just my nature. Not like its Mr.
Stern's too.
Mayor Russo - But did you give them an approval, I guess what
Nick was saying was you gave an approval back at
that meeting. Can somebody tell me whether we...I
didn't read that in the thing.
Councilman Clark - I think there was concensus that we go ahead
and develop it further and come to some sort
of arrangement. From my standpoint I don't
have problems with the games of chance
concept, I don't have problems with the
rides, I'd just like to know what they are.
So that we have some certainty as to what's
going in there.
Councilman Jablin - Exactly.
Nick Lioce - If I could respond to this ... and the same thing you
raised too Ms. Monroe. We have given a list, we've
given... it was only two days ago admittedly the
list of the games is on the site plan excuse me the
rides. We have a specific list of the rides,
excuse me, the games that will be at the site in
the contract with Deca. We read them off to you.
We could read them off to you again. We could give
you copy of the contract.
Vice Mayor Monroe - That wasn't my point. My point was did you
give this so that it was easy for the layman
to look at when you met with Mr. Stern?
Nick Lioce - I believe the site plan with the rides was on there
and Mr ... both Mr. Russo and Mr. Stern...
Vice Mayor Monroe - Does that tell the sizes?
Unintelligable conversation too many people talking at once.
Nick Lioce - We don't have mechanical drawings to tell the size.
Their the same rides that you see at all the
different fairs and stuff.
Unintelligable conversation too many people talking at once.
Mayor Russo - Let's see...I know this is getting...We gotta cut
this short.
Councilwoman Furtado - I'm really having a hard time with this
because...
Mayor Russo - Maybe you gave them permission to do it.
Councilwoman Furtado - No, I'm just saying. Based on what we
talked about with the concensus.
Mayor Russo - See that's my problem I wasn't here.
Councilwoman Furtado - OK.
Mayor Russo - That's what I'm saying.
Councilwoman Furtado - No one advised that we had to pass a
resolution or it was the idea, OK, we've
met with all the departments or the
company's met with all the departments,
met the requirements of the ... as far as
public safety went da da da. The
concensus of the council was to move
forward with whatever needed to be done
and that's why I was so surprised when I
saw this this .... you know.
Nick Lioce - At the staff level, that's what we were told too.
Go get a contract, work out a contract with the
City Manager.
Councilwoman Furtado - That's how I understood it.
Nick Lioce - And meet with all the staff, make sure public
safety was all set and we did all those things and
now we hear that you know ... and we met with CAN and
we tryed to address concerns and we will continue
to try...
Mayor Russo - But you didn't. You didn't finish meeting with CAN
Nick Lioce - We'll continue to try to do that. Don't tell us
that you won't sign our contract and give us our
permits. We've relied on that when we had that
hearing and we were told to go get a contract
exceptable to the City and when the City gave it
to us we signed it.
Mayor Russo - OK. You see I can't.... I'm not going to speak
anymore cause I wasn't here.
Nick Lioce - What's the purpose of a contract if you're now
going to say you'll give it to us, we signed it
and gave you a deposit and then oh, by the way
you weren't approved. That doesn't make sense
either.
Mayor Russo - To me, now you said a contract, and in the contract
in the minutes it said you have to meet with CAN.
I would put it this way....
Councilman Jablin - I see a contract here.
Mayor Russo - And it says you have to get the approval of CAN.
Nick Lioce - No it doesn't, it says we have to meet with them.
Why would we get the approval of CAN?
Mayor Russo - I wouldn't want to put you in that position either.
I wouldn't want to be in that position.
Nick Lioce - It says we will meet with them and I am telling you
that we will meet with them again and again until
we can try to resolve the issues. We don't want to
have an event that the community.... we want PGA
National people to come.
Mayor Russo - I know you do. You live here too.
Nick Lioce - Absolutely. And again, I was surprised when I saw
CAN. I read his news just like you do. Seems like
we should meet with the Property Owners Association
or the different associations because we want that
community to join in ... we want them walking over
and spending money at this event. So, there's no
question about that ... we do want to do that and
we thought that was the import of that, to make
sure that they like what we are doing. We have a
bit more interest then you do because if they
don't like it they won't come.
Councilman Jablin - They're not going to come and they're not going
to come back next year. People have to realize
that this is a three day event. This is not
a permanent situation.
Mayor Russo - Excuse me, I can't do the rest of the meeting and...
Nick Lioce - We respectfully request that we have approval of the
Mayor to sign the contract that you sent us out to
sign and that's what we need to have so that we can
move forward and get the site plan.
Vice Mayor Monroe - Mr. Mayor. Alright, before I make a motion I
have just a couple of questions. On page 2,
in terms of the insurance. If I remember
correctly here it says one million dollars for
this is item 2A ... policy of insurance in the
sum of no less than one million dollars for
each incident insuring against bodily injury
etc. I think the said circus one said five
million. Now is there a difference because
one is per incident or and the circus was five
million each. I was just wondering...
Bobbie Herakovich - That was the recommendation of our insurance
company and...
Vice Mayor Monroe - The five or the one?
Bobbie Herakovich - Whatever it says on I haven't found the page
yet. On number six I believe.
Vice Mayor Monroe - I'm on 2A of page 2 of the contract.
Bobbie Herakovich - The contract that you saw that your comparing
it to is the contract that MacArthur what the
MacArthur Foundation is requiring of the
circus.
Vice Mayor Monroe - I'm wondering if they are showing more insight
to the issue than we are or do we need... or
does it matter.
Bobbie Herakovich - Our insurance company and our attorney drew up
the contract.
Vice Mayor Monroe - If their comfortable with it than I'm
comfortable with it.
Councilman Jablin - What are they giving to MacArthur, on this
contract? MacArthur.
Nick Lioce - Is it the same coverage? We have to have the same
coverage.
Bobbie Herakovich - They have to have the same coverage. That's
their blanket policy for the use of their
land.
Vice Mayor Monroe - The next thing is the last thing in the same
paragraph referred to the city shall be named
as an additional isuued and shall receive such
certificate of insurance prior to any
advertising by Morgan. Advertising's already
occuring.
Councilman Jablin - Ooops!
Nick Lioce - Advertising's not occuring. There have been press
releases. Just press releases. Only press
releases. No advertising.
Vice Mayor Monroe - OK and everything will be...
Randy Carillo - The policy will be sent to the City Manager's
Office.
Vice Mayor Monroe - Has the press release been revised?
Randy Carillo - Yes.
Vice Mayor Monroe - And re- issued?
Randy Carillo - And re- issued: There are other statements
that going out that have been changed and
modified.
Vice Mayor Monroe - Item 3, all written advertisements shall first
be approved by the City Manager or designated
staff member prior to release thereof and
Morgan shall also submit letters of agreement
with all advertised charities. When it says
shall submit I always want to say when. How
do we know when this is going to happen.
Nick Lioce - As soon as they occur obviously but then we're
going to have to have them before the event but
we've got that one signed up. We've been pressing
to get all kinds of agreements signed before but
we've haven't got them done.
Vice Mayor Monroe - OK so before the event this will happen? Do
need we need to say anything?
Nick Lioce - We may not have signed the agreements with the
charities. For instance, DARE, we're making a
contribution based on the agreement we have with
the City. I don't know if we're going to have a
separate agreement with DARE. We haven't signed an
agreement with the Foundation and DARE, and the
Foundation will also contribute money to DARE. We
have no agreement with DARE.
Councilman Clark -
Nick Lioce - From
Councilman Clark -
Vice Mayor Monroe -
Attorney Baldwin -
Do you have a letter or something?
Dare? No.
From you to Dare? Some sort of thing
evidencing what you were interested in.
George do we need anything else?
No I don't have too much concern with that
aspect of it.
Vice Mayor Monroe - And then not ... whether I am for Morgan meeting
with CAN. My question was when and what if no
agreement. I think that's the basic issue
right here and I guess... I'm willing to say I
will... I'm willing to sign to this it says
that you will ... you shall meet and address any
concerns and it would be up to this city
council to determine whether or not you have
adequately met those concerns we get to play
judge on this I assume.
Nick Lioce - We were assuming staff was going to be in on this.
That's what we've been doing working with all of
your different staffs. That way people didn't have
to come back to city council every time we had to
address an issue.
Vice Mayor Monroe - Well the way I see it is the direction is you
will meet with them. That does not mean that
we have to abide by that but I think a major
neighborhood this is going to be quite an
impact on us.
Mayor Russo - So you don't want to give him the approval then?
He asking for the approval.
Vice Mayor Monroe - No, well I'm willing to say that I'm willing
to do it.
Mayor Russo - You're willing to give them the approval but if
they don't accept it then you didn't give it to
them.
Vice Mayor Monroe - Then what I'm saying is we are basically the
arbitrator. We're saying that they will meet
the concerns of ....
Councilman Clark - Its a contract between us and them.
Mayor Russo - What are you going to do ... void the contract if they
don't....
Nick Lioce - Joe, what I'm saying is we're willing if you'll
agree to everything else besides the rides and the
games, to have those things arbitrated if that's
what you'd like to have. If we can't come to a
conclusion we are glad for you to have a list of
both and come back to another meeting. We've got
to do it quickly like at your next meeting and say
these are the exact specific rides, the exact
specific games we.are going to have. Yes. Yes.
No. Yes. Yes. No. We've got to do it...
Mayor Russo - So what you want to do is meet with CAN.
Nick Lioce - Sure.
Mayor Russo - And if they don't agree, come back to us.
Nick Lioce - Our preference is to meet with the property owner
association so we are meeting with the residents
opposed to a private organization.
Councilman Jablin - CAN has a big membership. You're not a member
of CAN? You should be. I'm a member of CAN.
Nick Lioce - I'm not a member of the John Birch Society. I'm
not a member of anything actually.
Vice Mayor Monre - Moving this right along, I have no preference
one way or the other whether its CAN or the
property owners association, so I look to this
Council to say "do you have a concensus ,
particularly the three of you who live there ".
While you're thinking, Item 7 says "the City
reserves the right to recind any permit issued
or refuse to issue a permit in the event the
conditions precendent set forth above are not
met by Morgan.. So, you are in jeopardy. We
will attempt to work with you. I mean if you
are both obstinate we have to mediate and I
certainly don't want to be in that kind of
position. I'm looking to you guys to say,
should it be CAN or the association. Which
is the most expeditious and fair.
Councilman Clark - I think we've got CAN involved. I'm comfortable
with CAN.
Councilman Jablin - I'm comfortable with CAN also.
Vice Mayor Monroe - My only concern is that you not wait until 48
hours until the next meeting where people
don't have a chance to talk. It ought to be
at least a week minimum to give you time to
deal with it.
Nick Lioce - Absolutely. We would like to identify the issues
to be just the rides and games of chance.
Vice Mayor Monroe - I think you need to put it in a way that they
understand in terms of a description of the
rides.
Mayor Russo - It also says the time.
Nick Lioce - We've brought it back from twelve o'clock to ten
o'clock. We want to identify the issues Mrs. Monroe
we want to know that everytime we meet with them
again we're going to have to fight about the time
again and all the other issues. We just want to
narrow it down.
Councilman Jablin - Milt, what do you think?
Milton Stern - I can't accept that but you can.
Councilman Jablin - I didn't say that. Excuse me I didn't say
that. I asked you. Excuse me - I asked you.
Can you narrow that down. Please, I'm asking
you too. Well broaden it. One way or the
other. Give the man parameters so he knows
what he is talking about.
Mayor Russo - He's going to meet with people in PGA National
that may have other concerns that no one here has
come up with, and I think in the best interest of
everyone here concerned is Nick, we're going to
be the final arbitrator so let's not tie him down
to whatever he wants to come up with if we're going
to be the final arbitrator. You're going to have
it based upon what we think and not based upon what
he thinks, but at least give him free rein to be
able to ..... the residents out there so we're not
jamming this down their throats.
Vice Mayor Monre - And, this isn't just Milton Stern.
Nick Lioce - We want to be able to meet with the residents. WE
have no problem with that. As long as we're going
forward and it's just a matter of when and where we
can do it.
Attorney Baldwin - I'd like to address this briefly. Basically,
the way this works legally is you have the
contract be signed by the City. If you pass
the Resolution tonight, then the contract's
signed. Now you're addressing the concern in
the contract which says they have to meet in
good faith and address the concerns of CAN.
As long as they meet with them and discuss the
contract is satisfied. In other words it's
not being delegated to CAN to determine the
requirements of this. If you want to reserve
specific right to determine the rides, the
size of the rides or the games of chance then
I think something needs to be put in the
contract.
Vice Mayor Monroe - Would you make a suggestion.
Attorney Baldwin - Well we could put a clause in the contract to
the effect that the rides, the size of the
rides and the games of chance must be (if you
want to make it approved by the City Manager
prior to the event taking place or if you want
it to come back to the City Council to
address.) The contract, if they meet with CAN,
is satisfied and you do not have the right to
revoke the permit because they didn't satisfy
those conditions.
Nick Lioce - To us tonight the major issues are the rides and
the games of chance .... and any new issues that may
arise we think we can address.
Attorney Baldwin - It would be paragraph 9 added to the contract
"Prior to the festival taking place Morgan
Entertainment Inc. shall present a list of
rides, size of rides and the games of chance
and secure the approval of the City Council ".
Mayor Russo - I only have one question - prior to when?
I would rather see it prior to whenever out next
meeting is going to be because we have to make a
final decision.
Nick Lioce We can meet with them before your next meeting.
Before your next meeting we'll meet with them...
along as we just present the City and CAN with
a list and we can do that before that meeting.
Attorney Baldwin - Instead of saying "prior to the festival" why
don't we say "On or before 11/4/93"
Nick Lioce - Mayor Russo why don't you meet with us so you know
what's going on.
Mayor Russo - Ok, I can. We can put you on the workshop for next
week but we can't officially take action.
Councilman Jablin - Milt will you be able to get some people
together?
Mayor Russo - Milt, I'm only one, but it says other issues that
may arise.
Vice Mayor Monroe - Mr. Chairman, I think the way we do this is...
I want to move for approval of Resolution 129,
1993.
Attorney Baldwin - If you sign the Resolution you're approving
the contract with this change. The contract
has previously been signed by Morgan
Entertainment so they will have to initial it.
Vice Mayor Monroe - The motion is to approve Resolution 129, 1993
and include the revisions to the contract just
read into the record by Mr. Baldwin.
Councilman Clark - Second.
Mayor Russo It's been moved and seconded. Any further
discussion? I'm just going to have one bit of
discussion. I'm not going to be voting for this
tonight and that doesn't mean I'm not in favor
of it ... doesn't mean I'm not going to work for
it, but I think it's going to be a successful
event and I believe in it and I want to see it
here in the Gardens. Probably if I was here in
that meeting in August and all of that discussion
took place I might be voting in favor of it, but
I would have wanted to know at that time exactly
what I was buying ... what rides and what games and
so forth and so on, and I would still like to know
right now what I'm buying and until then I'm not
going to vote for it. But, I'm sure that in two
weeks time I am going to vote for it but tonight
I'm going to vote against it. Passes 4 to 1.
Attorney Baldwin -