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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Council 010793ANNOUNCEMENTS PRESENTATIONS ITEMS BY CITY MANAGER ✓`, CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING CITY OF PALM BEACH GARDENS JANUARY 7, 1993 The Regular Meeting of the City Council of the City of Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, was called to order by Mayor Martino at 8:00 P.M., in the Assembly Room of the Municipal Complex, 10500 North Military Trail, Palm Beach Gardens, Florida; and opened with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. The City Clerk called the roll and present were Mayor Martino, Vice Mayor Russo, Councilwoman Monroe, Councilman Jablin (arrived at 8:07 p.m.), and Councilwoman Furtado, The Mayor stated the announcements were as posted on the City's bulletin boards. Mayor Martino presented a plaque to Assistant City Manager Ed Mitchell who had resigned after 5 -1/2 years with the City of Palm Beach Gardens to accept the position of Assistant City Manager with the City of West Palm Beach. DCA Administrative Hearinq re: County Traffic Element Mr. Rich Walton commented on a letter from Mr. Paul Bradshaw concerning this Stem and briefed Council on the status of the item. He stated an administrative hearing had been scheduled for March 1993. Responding to questions from Councilwoman Monroe, he stated there would be a discovery process through depositions and written requests for records to ensure all data is available and accurate. He also stated the hearing officer would evaluate the laws, the City's and the County's arguments, and would determine if the City is correct. Mayor Martino CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 2 concluded and City Council agreed that the City would leave its options open and stay in the process. Comprehensive Plan Amendments of North Palm Beach, Lake Park and Riviera Beach - Mr. Orr asked for direction from Council whether to continue to intervene since those cities' plans are given special treatment by the County, the Treasure Coast Planning Council, and DCA which is not afforded Palm Beach Gardens. He stated the City of Palm Beach Gardens must submit traffic engineering reports showing the effect of proposed projects on surrounding communities while the other cities are not required to do so. In response to a question from Councilwoman Furtado, Mr. Walton stated FAU, Palm Beach County, and Lake Park had responded to the invitation to the proposed charette. Councilwoman Monroe suggested that representatives from the Treasure Coast Planning Council and Palm Beach County be invited to discuss the process with the City of Palm Beach Gardens and to explain why they do this. She also stated she has a problem objecting to Riviera Beach, and Mr. Walton stated they have not provided the data on what their impacts will be. There was a consensus of Council to allow staff to remain in the process. MPO Appointment - Councilwoman Furtado asked to represent the City of Palm Beach Gardens on the MPO. It was the consensus of Council that Councilwoman Furtado would be the City's representative and Vice Mayor Russo would be the alternate. Planninq and Desiqn Guidelines for PGA Boulevard - This item was scheduled for workshop on January 14, 1993. CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 3 Draft Proposal by the County for an Ordinance on Water and Irrigation Conservation - Mayor Martino commented on the cost of enforcing such an ordinance and then read a statement from the Municipal League which said "the presumption would be that all ordinances adopted by the Board of County Commissioners would apply in the unincorporated areas of the County only" rather than throughout all municipalities and unincorporated areas as is the case now. Continuing with the statement, he said, "The County Commission currently makes the presumption that everything would be countywide and then leave the burden on municipal governments to figure out why they should not be part of it." He said this costs a lot of money and staff time which causes a hardship on the smaller municipalities. He further stated that should the Board of County Commissioners determine on a preliminary basis that a particular ordinance should have countywide applicability, a draft of that ordinance would be presented to the Board of Directors of the Municipal League for their review and presented to the League's general membership prior to first reading of any ordinance by the County. He stated the key is that any municipality would tell the County they want to "opt into" it which would involve relatively little cost. Mayor Martino stated he had sent the County a memorandum of understanding on this matter and plans to invite a County Commissioner to attend the Municipal League Board meeting in January with the hope that communication problems will be improved. It was the consensus of City Council that the City Manager would CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 4 advise the County that Palm Beach Gardens already has an ITEMS BY MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL ordinance pertaining to irrigation and water conservation and would "opt out" of this particular ordinance. Performance Evaluation Process for City Manager - It was suggested by Councilwoman Monroe that the two sample performance evaluation forms from Lake Park and Lakeland be combined for use by the City of Palm Beach Gardens. It was the consensus of City Council that the City Clerk would draw up a new form using the Lake Park sample. Instead of the "comments" section, however, there would be space for the following: (1) "What we like", ( 2 ) "What we want more of", and ( 3 ) "What we would like done differently" Vice Mayor Russo asked about the process for replacing Assistant City Manager Ed Mitchell following his resignation, and Mr. Orr responded a decision would be made whether to have an "Assistant City Manager" or an "Assistant to the City Manager ". Mayor Martino The Mayor stated on December 21st, the County Commission held its continued public hearing on the amendment concerning the Jog Road issue. He stated the County Commission had transmitted the amendment dated January 5th which would begin the process to remove the road from its Thoroughfare system. Concerning the interlocal agreement, the Mayor stated Commissioner Marcus had been appointed to act as a negotiator if necessary with the City of Palm Beach Gardens. He stated should there be negotiations, they should be between the local governments and should include CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 5 a County Commissioner and staff, and a member of the City Council and staff, if necessary. As an alternative, he stated Commissioner Marcus could be invited to meet with City Council. Councilwoman Furtado made the motion, seconded by councilman Jablin, that Councilman Jablin represent the City Council in any negotiations with the County. Mayor Martino commented the interlocal agreement which was on the table constituted the policy of the City of Palm Beach Gardens, and this was the point of negotiation. Councilwoman Furtado amended the motion, seconded by Councilman Jablin, to add Vice Mayor Russo as an alternate in the negotiations. The motion was unanimously approved by the City Council. Mayor Martino mentioned a letter he had written to the Elections Board concerning an additional polling place or precinct in Palm Beach Gardens. He stated Ms. Jackie Winchester, Supervisor of Elections, had indicated she would attempt to correct this deficiency as well as other problems the City Manager had brought to her attention. COUNCILWOMAN FURTADO Following an inquiry from Councilwoman Furtado, Mr. Orr explained that the Police Pension Board and the Firemen's Trust Fund Board were two separate, unrelated boards meeting on different dates and that Jill Hanson represented the Police Officers and not the Firefighters. Regarding the charette, Councilwoman Furtado asked that staff send letters of invitation to Mike Danchek, Co- Chairman of the Northwest Coalition, Sue Daniels of Jupiter Farms, and Jerry CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 6 Gardner. Councilwoman Monroe stated there could be some confusion in the community concerning the difference between the Steering Committee and the actual charette. She stated she hoped people serving on the steering committee would have some experience in that type of activity. She also stated the steering committee, among other things, would be determining the ground rules concerning who participates in the final event. Following the councilmembers discussing various attributes of several potential members of the steering committee, Councilwoman Monroe offered a compromise. She stated two people attending next week's meeting from each local government would be sufficient. If additional people are needed, those people who have experience with such events could be invited to attend the charette. Holly Drive Councilwoman Furtado initiated a discussion concerning Holly Drive being blocked off during the time period when children are coming and going to the school. Police Chief Fitzgerald stated Assistant Chief O'Rourke had been monitoring the situation and believed perhaps it would be just as safe without the detours. He stated they could continue to monitor Holly Drive for speeders and if there were problems, the barricades could be reinstalled. He indicated most traffic engineers do not advocate the blocking of roadways on an interim basis. Mr. Sam Carsillo expressed his objection to police officers being used instead of maintenance workers to install the barricades. Councilman Jablin made a motion to remove the barricades; CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 7 however, it was not seconded, and the motion was withdrawn for further discussion. Responding to a question from Councilwoman Furtado, Chief FitzGerald indicated there had been some increase in accidents in the area when the barricades were in place last year. Councilwoman Monroe suggested that no action be taken until some former studies had been reviewed and a public hearing was held. Vice Mayor Russo agreed that a public hearing should be held provided at least three Councilmembers were in favor of changing the policy regarding the barricade. City Manager Orr pointed out the engineering study conducted in previous years had not been to determine safety but addressed the number and types of signs which would be permanent as opposed to the roll -out signs. Mr. Sam Carsillo stated he and Councilwoman Furtado observed 32 children within an hour which was less children than 10 years ago. He also stated that the four lanes of traffic should be opened and that a bicycle /pedestrian path could be built in the 12 -foot wide strip between the road and the sidewalk. Councilwoman Monroe said she would like to see the engineering report, and Councilman Jablin agreed the report should be studied and the parents given an opportunity to address the issue. Mayor Martino pointed out to Councilwoman Furtado that according to the City Charter such issues should be researched through the City Manager prior to being brought before Council. He also stated this issue had been discussed many times with the result being the barricades remained in place. He also indicated a CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 8 number of engineering studies had been done which indicated the current method was a safe and legal way to handle the problems. A.C. Ducts /P.D. Councilwoman Furtado inquired about the possibility of mold in the air conditioning ducts in the Police Department and was told by Mr. Orr new duct work was installed approximately two years ago, and the Health Department will inspect it as soon as possible. VICE MAYOR RUSSO Vice Mayor Russo stated he believed it was a good idea for the Mayor and City Council items to come at the end of the meeting so the public would not have to stay so late. COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC Mr. Sam Carsillo stated having the agenda in the local papers was a good idea. Regarding evaluation of the City Manager, Mr. Carsillo stated he had been evaluating Mr. Orr for 19 years, and he recalled a number of instances when Mr. Orr had been helpful to him and the public over the years and had accomplished many things, while saving the City money. He further commented on the number of private developments being built which are inaccessible to the public, and he also said he believed there was a need for more bicycle paths. He also stated he believed the City of Palm Beach Gardens should have four councilmembers from four different districts and a mayor at large. William Myers Mr. Myers, 1022 Shady Lakes Circle, Palm Beach Gardens, spoke to the City Council about an article concerning a water conservation program in the St. Petersburg area in Pinellas County where 200,000 water saving kits were issued to every home CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETINP, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 9 in Pinellas County with 130,000 more to be issued shortly. He stated this is the second largest program of this type in the United States, with the largest being the entire state of Connecticut. He suggested this is something the City might want to consider doing on a city -wide basis or encourage the County to start such a program. councilwoman Monroe suggested Mr. Myers contact the Water Management District. Dr. Milton Stern Dr. Stern of PGA National stated he agreed with everything discussed concerning the Interlocal Agreement and that he understands the opposition too well. He stated the County Commission does expect an Interlocal Agreement, and therefore, he distributed to Council copies of five approaches he had compiled which might be acceptable to both the City and County. CONSENT AGENDA Councilwoman Monroe requested Item #8, Resolution 117, 1992, be removed from the Consent Agenda. Councilwoman Monroe made the motion, seconded by Councilwoman Furtado, that the remaining items on the Consent Agenda be approved. The motion by City Council was unanimous for approval of the following items on the Consent Agenda: 1. Approval of Minutes of Regular Meeting of 12/17/92, as amended. 2. Approval of amendments to Resolution 116, 1992 as directed by City Council 12/17/92. 3. Proclaiming January 25 -29, 1993, as "Teller Appreciation Week ". 4. Proclaiming the month of January, 1993, as "National Volunteer Blood Donor Month ". CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 10 5. Proclaiming 2/18- 2/28/93 as "Shrine Hospital Days ". 6. Proclaiming March 7, 1993, as "Palm Beach Gardens Polo Day ". 7. Resolution 110, 1992 - Amending Resolution 90, 1989, which created Crystal Bay PUD on Parcel 2 of BallenIsles, by modifying setback requirements. 9. Resolution 118, 1992 - Minor Amendment to Ordinance 7, 1984, which created Golden Bear Plaza PUD, re: signage. 10. Resolution 1, 1993 - Approval of PUD Expiration Policy Statement. 11. Resolution 3, 1993 - Approval of the Plat of "The Gardens Mall ", created 11/15/84 by Resolution 62, 1984, consisting of 3 sheets dated 8/92, prepared by Hutcheon Engineers. RESOLUTION 117, 199 On page 2, Section 5, fifth line, Councilwoman Monroe stated the word "not" was an error and should be removed. Councilwoman Monroe made a motion, seconded by Vice Mayor Russo, to approve Resolution 117, 199A, as amended, approving a roadway, landscaping and signage site plan within the City which shall service a golf driving range and a miniature golf putting course with accessory facilities located within the Town of Lake Park. The motion was unanimously approved by the City Council. PUBLIC HEARINGS RESOLUTION 1, Mayor Martino declared the Public Hearing open, which was duly advertised on 12/23/92 and held on the intent of Resolution 1, 1993, granting a conditional use and distance variance in CG- 1 Zoning District to allow the retail sale and service of beer and wine for on- premise consumption at Carmine's Gourmet Market, located in the Harbour Shops Shopping Center. There being no comments from the public, Mayor Martino declared the Public CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 11 Hearing closed. Councilwoman Monroe made a motion, seconded by Councilman Jablin, to approve Resolution 1, 1993. The motion was unanimously approved by the City Council. ORDINANCE 1, 1993 Ordinance 1, 1993, amending Chapter 30 of the Palm Beach Gardens Code to provide for a curfew on adjournment of City Council meetings, and other administrative changes, was scheduled by Mayor Martino for the January 14, 1993, City Council Workshop. Councilwoman Monroe made the motion, seconded by Vice Mayor Russo, to place Ordinance 1, 1993, on first reading. The motion was unanimously approved by the City Council. The City Clerk read, by title only, on first reading, Ordinance 1, 1993. EMS. S FOR DISCUSSION Parcel 1.10 Mr. Rich Walton stated staff had reviewed the environmental preservation plan proposed by Pulte Homes Corporation for the 80 -acre parcel located east of Frenchman's Creek and west of Crystal Pointe which was formerly known as Starwood. He stated staff was recommending approval of the plan as currently proposed. He pointed out that the site had an unusually high number of gopher tortoises, possibly because of migration from nearby development. Mayor Martino clarified that City Council had established a policy to avoid overburdening petitioners with financial obligations by reviewing the petitions when there is application to the Environmentally Sensitive Lands Ordinance and give CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 12 direction, if necessary, prior to initiating the planning and zoning process. He stated should any concerns be raised, the record should not reflect any indication of approval or denial for the finality of the project. Mr. James F. Schnell, Jr., P.E., Consultant, gave Council an overview of his project review activities to date. He described the location of the site and also discussed the wildlife, especially the abundant gopher tortoises, and the vegetation found. Councilwoman Furtado questioned Mr. Schnell about relocating gopher tortoises which might be diseased and the number of acres required for each tortoise. Mr. Schnell stated they would probably sample every fourth tortoise to see if there were any problems, and the details would be worked out with the Fresh water Fish and Game Office in Vero Beach. He said if diseased tortoises were found, the preserve area size could be increased and perhaps the areas that are already being preserved could be overstocked. He said one -half acre per tortoise has been used and is dependent on a number of things. He said the applicant would provide a management plan in which they would be enhancing the habitat of the existing tortoises. Responding to additional questions from Councilwoman Furtado, he stated, the west side of the site where there were a lot of weeds, brazilian pepper, and caesar weeds would be cleaned up so that it would be a more valuable tortoise habitat. He said a permit would be required and whatever is done would have to be done in compliance with State regulations. In addition, he said there CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 13 is a sequencing technique or process for a permit with the Water Management District which involves "avoidance, minimization, and then mitigation ". Concerning certain endangered plant species, he stated these would be either preserved where they were presently located or relocated on site. Councilwoman Monroe questioned whether the reviewing agencies had to transmit their findings and comments to the City, and she would like to know what those findings were. Mr. Schnelle stated he would recommend that the City receive carbon copies of all correspondence. Mr. Walton stated a PUD site plan had not been submitted at this stage, but when it had been submitted they would be looking at everything in more detail. He also stated the mitigation would come prior to platting and construction drawings. Regarding mitigation, Councilwoman Monroe stated she would like the City Council's policy to routinely ask for information concerning any recommendations made for Palm Beach Gardens. Mr. Walton responded all the agencies mentioned require far more wetland preservation than Palm Beach Gardens. Responding to questions from Vice Mayor Russo, Mr. Schnelle stated he recommended approval of the 10.25 acre upland preserve area, and Mayor Martino stated Council was not really approving anything. He stated the only thing they were doing was ensuring that the parameters of the Environmentally Sensitive Lands Ordinance were being met. He stated the only issue being dealt with by Council was the issue of the Environmentally Sensitive Lands Ordinance, and it was Council's policy to ask the CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 14 petitioner to come to Council first to ensure the environmental concerns were being met. Once this was done, the petitioner would be allowed to go through the planning and zoning process which would address some of the other concerns which had been raised. Mayor Martino again emphasized no approval was being given on anything at that time other than to say, "You may now begin the process because we think you have met the intent of the Sensitive Lands Ordinance." He stated although other local governments did not offer that, because Palm Beach Gardens is vitally concerned about the environment, the Council has taken this additional step. In addition, he stated there are other agencies who will monitor the mitigation and any other problems which had been raised. He said it is the Council's responsibility to make sure those things have been addressed and satisfied and that the site plan is ultimately designed to meet the intent of what was presented originally as well as the concerns of the other agencies. The motion was made by Councilwoman Monroe, seconded by Vice Mayor Russo, to authorize staff to allow the petition to proceed with the instructions to Planning and Zoning being that the minimum requirements of the Environmentally Sensitive Lands Ordinance for the time being had been met. The motion was approved by a vote of 4 ayes and 1 nay. Councilwoman Furtado cast the nay vote since she believed there were "too many things to move ahead ". RCEL IS - 't�LLENISLES Mr. Rich Walton gave an overview of the petitioner's request to CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 15 - amend the Planned Unit Development for Parcel 18 of the BallenIsles Planned Community District to replace 52 single - family detached homes with 106 duplexes and to construct a dry sales model. He stated the Planning and Zoning Commission had recommended denial of the petition to the City Council; however, the petitioner had indicated a willingness to work on some of the concerns and return to the Planning and Zoning Commission. Mr. Walton pointed out that the project was originally a PCD approved for a mixed medium density and even with doubling the density, they fell well within the allowable densities. Mr. Ray Royce, on behalf of the applicant, stated the Planning and Zoning Commission had been concerned about the number of units, streetscape, garage doors; and there had been a 4 -3 vote to deny the petition. Following meetings involving himself, the petitioner, and the consultant, Mr. Royce stated they had decided it would be best if the matter returned to the Planning and Zoning Commission after making the desired changes; and he requested Council to direct the petition back to the Planning and Zoning Commission. Regarding the temporary "dry" sales model, Mr. Royce stated they would like to build one -half of a building prior to approval of the project because it was important from a timing standpoint. He presented to Council a list of conditions with which the petitioner would comply should Council approve the model. He stated the units would be in the $175 - 200,000+ range, and compared the units to others in developments such as PGA National CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 16 and Frenchman's Creek. He stated it was extremely important to receive approval for the model quickly because market studies had shown that most sales would occur between February and April which would benefit BallenIsles as well as the City. Vice Mayor Russo expressed his fear that potential buyers would be given a false sense of security if the model were constructed prior to approval of the project, and Mr. Royce said all the facts would be revealed to potential buyers who would not be required to sign a contract until after the project was approved. Councilwoman Monroe said she was concerned that the sales people would not give prospective buyers the complete story concerning the fact that the project had not yet been approved. Mr. Royce responded they would only be using in -house sales personnel who would not do anything to destroy the company's credibility or subject themselves to liability. Councilman Jablin asked if they were selling a neighborhood or a floor plan and said he believed if the people see a floor plan, they will want to see the lots as well. Mr. Royce responded that by the time the model is built, they should have been through the approval process. Councilwoman Monroe suggested the house could be built if it remained locked and the City held the key until the project received approval. Attorney Brant stated he thought such an arrangement would place the city in peril and suggested an additional condition be added. Following further discussion, Mayor Martino asked for consensus CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 17 of Council to a sixth condition which would state, "The Hanson Florida II Corporation will not in any way demonstrate, market, or use as a sales tool the mockup building until it has received approval through the Planning and Zoning process and by the City Council." Mr. Brant suggested a resolution be brought back to the City Council at the next regularly scheduled meeting. vice Mayor Russo again stated he did not feel comfortable with the whole idea and did not think they should proceed. Mr. Royce stated he believed the City was legally protected based on the conditions they had submitted. To protect the City from a legal standpoint, Mr. Brant recommended an exhibit be submitted showing a statement that the project had not been approved by the City, which would be used on any of the petitioner's documents. Following additional discussion, it was the consensus of Council to have the City Attorney prepare a resolution for consideration at a special meeting on January 14, 1993. Councilwoman Monroe made the motion, seconded by Councilwoman Furtado, that Parcel 18 petition be remanded back to Planning and Zoning Commission for reconsideration. Mayor Martino stated that the 14 conditions of the Planning and Zoning Commission should also be addressed by the petitioner. The motion was unanimously approved by the City Council. It was the consensus of City Council that the revisions would be presented to the Planning and Zoning Department on Monday morning, January 11, 1993. L- CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 18 'p, 2T5 BY MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL Vice Mayor Russo The Vice Mayor reported the chairman of the Recreation Advisory Board, Chuck Campbell, had resigned, and had been replaced by Ms. Ronnye Sands. He stated they would be advertising for new people. He also stated he believed Ms. Bobbie Herakovich, Recreation Department Director, had done an excellent job coordinating the Advisory Board. Vice Mayor Russo stated he would be unable to attend the upcoming Advisory Board breakfast because of a conflict and requested that in the future the Mayor and Council be given an opportunity to check their calendars prior to dates being set for such events. He also stated he believed the Mayor and Council should have been invited to the City Employees Barbecue, and he was disappointed that the City no longer had a Christmas party. CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 19 ,.,JOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, the meeting was adjourned at 11:09 P.M. APPROVAL MAYOR MICHAEL MAR�TINO r' ZCE ko� �k-'�OE RtSSO f COUNCILWOMAN LAUREN FURTADO - -fIWDA V. KOSIER, CITY CLERK jh IDI944AIQMAN LINDA MONROE LIN EXCERPT CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING JANUARY 7, 1993 Councilwoman Furtado: I wanted to bring up what Mr. Carsillo brought up at the last meeting. I met him at 7:00 o'clock on Holly Drive. No doughnuts and coffee though, Sam. You didn't give me doughnuts and coffee, after I was here until 1:00 o'clock. Anyway, Sam and I stood on the side of the road from 7:00 o'clock until quarter of 9:00 watching to see what would happen; and it was interesting to me that until the road was blocked off the kids were riding and walking their bikes on the pedestrian/ bicycle path, and there was no problem. The minute the sign went out everybody left the sidewalks 'and went to the streets. I spoke to the - -Chief Fitzgerald and Assistant Chief O'Rourke on the issue and, unfortunately, they couldn't be here tonight, but they are looking into several things. Something happened today that's a good example of one of their concerns. After the - -as the Police Officer was getting ready to put out the school signs, a school bus broke down on the eastern - -the southern -most lane that you'd be traveling east on; so that once the road was blocked and the traffic is coming now, you know, going two ways on one side, there'd be almost- -you can't see past the school bus. So, you would have had a horrible traffic jam. Assistant Chief O'Rourke happened to be in the area and saw it happening, but then heard the officer say, "Well, wait a minute. We can't close off the road because we have a vehicle out of commission," which was good; but- then they had to stand there and direct traffic down both sides because normally the road is closed off, during school time outs. So, there was a big fiasco. I wish he could have been here tonight so he could have explained it a little bit better. This is one of their concerns. Vice Mayor Russo: ...He was just here. Councilwoman Furtado: He was? The Chief—.? Vice Mayor Russo: He was just outside. Councilwoman Furtado: Is he still out there? The Chief, yes, oh good. Chief, I need you. • Sam Carsillo: That was on the south side of the road. Councilwoman Furtado: Right. Councilman Jablin: Going east. Councilwoman Furtado: We're talking about the sidewalks on Holly Drive, Chief, and I was just telling the Council what I had observed the morning I was there, if you could help enlighten us on the issue. Police Chief FitzGerald: Yes, I was speaking to the Assistant Chief O'Rourke who has been monitoring the situation, and it's his opinion that perhaps it would be just as well and just as safe without the detours; and we would continue to monitor Holly Drive in the morning and the afternoon when school goes in and lets out with our motorcycle officers and if we had to enforce the speed with radar, we would do that, but as a high school, I think if we notify the school that we're going to change the program, they would let the students know. I don't think there would be major problem. 'If in fact we did take the barricades down for a trial period and discovered there were problems, we can always resume the barricades. But most of your traffic engineers that I have spoken to over my career do not advocate blocking off roadways. I tried to do it at Singer Island at the beachfront, put out roll -out signs, and they told me they would advise against those kinds of things. Mayor Martino: Somebody want to make a motion to take the barricades down? Councilwoman Furtado: Sam, did you have some questions, too, that you wanted to say? Sam Carsillo: Well, I'm going to speak when it's my turn to speak, and I'll elaborate a little; but I... it was there, .but the only thing,I feel bad about, and I wanted the Chief to know about this because I was going to come see him one day this week, because that pertaining to the officers, when I see them roll out all them wheels out there and the road is blocked 2 Councilman Jablin: Councilwoman Monroe: Vice Mayor Russo: off here and the police is on the other side trying to direct traffic, they're doing a lot of maintenance work when they're pulling out the signs out there. I think sometimes two, three officers are tied up when they could be going ahead and doing their official duties, and all they're doing maintenance work where some maintenance guy could get over there and just roll the wheels out early in the morning, and then roll them back whenever it's necessary. That's the only objection that I have as far as the professional police are doing. I'd like to see them do their own job and not do maintenance work. But I'm going to elaborate on Holly Drive, and if you want me to I can do it right now. But I'd like to tie that all in with my other grievances that I've got. I don't want to take the wind out of your sails, Sam, but I make such a motion because I truly believe that the Chief's got a good point there. Mr. Chairman, I second it... I don't like... Mayor Martino: Is there a second to the motion to...Lauren. Councilwoman Furtado: I just wanted to ask the Chief a question before we went ahead with the motion. Councilwoman Monroe: Could I ... would you withdraw your motion just so, I want to make a comment before the motion is made. Councilman Jablin: I withdraw my motion... certainly, go right ahead. Councilwoman Furtado: Do you feel that we're accomplishing what I would assume that was what was set out to do is protecting people's lives, making it safer. Do you think we're actually doing that? Have there been any noticeable number of increase in accidents when the road is blocked off versus when it isn't blocked off? 3 Police Chief FitzGerald: I think when we did a review, the Assistant Chief did a review with the Traffic Sergeant, that we did notice some increase when the barricades were up over the last year: Vice Mayor Russo: Increase in accidents? Police Chief FitzGerald: Right. When the barricades were in place. Councilman Jablin: How long have the barricades been this way? Police Chief FitzGerald: I don't know. I've only been here 3 months. Councilwoman Monroe: More than 16 years... City Manager Orr: Since 1965. Councilman Jablin: Predates me. Police Chief FitzGerald: 27 years. Councilwoman Monroe: Mr. Chairman? Mayor Martino: Yes, Linda. Councilwoman Monroe: I would like to suggest before me make this motion, suggest that we hold of f for the benef it of , there' s been quite a change up here since the last time that we were nearly tarred and feathered over this issue. Somewhere in our archives, John probably won't want me to make this suggestion, but I' d like to at least for the benefit of all of us, to look at, we did a study way back when. I'd like to dust that off and let us take a look at it one more time before we make the rash decision. Councilman Jablin: Should we have a public hearing over this? Do you think the public should be, to get a little input from the public....I mean you know .... tarred and 4 Councilwoman Monroe: Vice Mayor Russo: Councilwoman Monroe: Councilwoman Furtado: Vice Mayor Russo: Councilwoman Furtado: Vice Mayor Russo: Councilwoman Furtado: Vice Mayor Russo: City Manager feathered. I think it would be wise. ...I wouldn't want to have a public hearing unless you have three votes up here to change it at this point. That's true. Well I'd like to see what the study said... I mean, my concern is, with all due respect to everyone, is the safety of the children down there and the residents and so forth; and I know that they went through a whole big thing and a whole big study and there's been a lot of discussion on the previous thing, rather than go just change it, I, you know, I just would like... Do you know what the study said? Did you ever see the study, Joe? No, I remember, it was brought up a couple of years ago, and we brought back some of the information, but I don't remember exactly what it was. Do you remember, John, what it said? I don't remember the whole big thing going way back, but I know that it was a whole big thing. So I think that before we were going to change it, if you did get a second on the motion to discuss it, I was going to suggest a,public hearing, but I just, you know, I think we should decide whether there's three votes to change it before you're going to have the public hearing and 'Maybe get people upset that don't need to be upset. So I think Linda's suggestion was the best - -bring it all back, what was originally there. Look at that and then decide whether we want... 5 Orr: Well, the study was not to determine safety or not. We looked at how many kids were traveling up from the school at that'time, but the study that we did was looking at the number of signs that would be permanent as opposed to having to roll out the signs. And we got, that was an engineer's study that was done, and the number of signs that you would have to put out would make it look like a Christmas tree, and it would violate the total intent of our Sign Code if you ever put the number of signs out there. I think, based on the study itself, it would probably be more confusing than it is today to try to read all those signs as you went up and down the roadway . What we had was flip signs at every intersection and every cross section. We had flip signs that at certain hours you would, could ride on both sides of the roadway. They would be closed off one hour in the morning, one hour in the afternoon, flip the signs back over, you know, just a nightmare. 1 So that was the extent of the study. councilman Jablin: I don't know if you've ever been through Washington, D.C. I'm sure most of you have been through Washington, but a lot of the streets in Washington have that same configuration that during rush hour one lane going north will convert to a northern lane and south to a southern lane in the morning, and it is confusing, I'll tell you. I've been there many times and it... Sam Carsillo: Mr. Chairman, on a point of information, I was speaking a little while ago. I didn't want to be cut off because I thought we were just going to cut off the debate on that, but just keep apples with apples and beans with beans. Forget about Washington, D.C., forget about everything else. Let's just talk about Holly Drive, that it's a necessity for twenty -three years I know of, that it was cut off like that and it's twenty -three years later, and it's still the same thing. We've got our heads in the sand and nobody wants to pull it out. Now, she and I were standing on that corner of Dasheen and Holly Drive. I got her purposely on the sidewalk to show her because every morning I go up that route, and I showed her, let's get off the sidewalk, here come the bicycles. And sure in Hell, all the kids came with their bicycles. And I said watch these little youngsters now. We're worrying about the little kids. They come down on the sidewalk, and a quarter after 7:00 the police was ME • • out there doing their job, and they start putting out the signs. As.soon as the signs went out there you get a couple of stragglers riding two lanes now going to school. I counted approximately 32 kids in the course of about an hour, and they all were stragglers and blocking up two lanes and riding down and walking around and just ... with one another. But the only problem we've got is the bottleneck down there at the Thompson River because you only got one bike can go across it. These kids are a little anxious to get across the bridge not around the side where the road where the cars are coming in. So we've got to go ahead and do something about that and open up the four lanes. It isn't going to do no harm...There's less kids today than there was 10 years ago. Mayor Martino: Sam, let me see if I can get a motion up here to get some kind of action going here. Sam Carsillo: No, I don't want to cut you off either, my fellow, I've got the floor. The important thing is this... say these guys were going to get a ... on the south side. I told them it's foolish. You got all palm trees, you've got anything and everything in the swale there. That's no good. We've got to go to the north side. If you want to go ahead and protect the kids, there's approximately 12 feet wide from the road up to the sidewalk. Now you can sure in Hell make a bicyclist and pedestrian walkway providing you put up the signs. The law says that the bicycles are a vehicle, and they must be on the street. But no, we can make room for them because we've got 12 feet for them to walk and ride that bicycle. All you have to do is just put one line down there -- bicyclists, pedestrians. There'll be no more problems with that road. Mayor Martino: I'm trying to get this thing to a head here, Sam. Does anybody want 'to make a motion to remove the barricades from Holly Drive? Sam Carsillo: I make that motion; Mr. Chairman. Mayor Martino: Okay, let's see if any of your representatives here want to do that for you. Councilwoman Monroe: I want to make a motion to see that report. Councilman Jablin: I made a motion for the sake of discussion, but I 7. don't think that we should do it tonight without a report because, Sam, I've got to tell you this... Sam Carsillo: I agree with you. Let's table it and we'll get the report... Councilman Jablin: I don't think we should table it. We should study it, but not study it ad nauseam, Sam. I think study it for the sake of; all of those parents out there who may feel the other way and don't have a voice in this, but I am sure that if we study it and we find that it's safer for them to do it the way you'd like to do it, and I'm telling you I had children who went to the elementary school as well. I've traveled down that road, and I agree with you. But I think for the sake of those parents who now have children in those schools, we should give them an opportunity to talk to this issue so that we don't get tarred and feathered over this. I think they deserve the input, that's all. Sam Carsillo: That was taken in 1982. February of 1982 Mr. Kiselewski had a meeting with the parents at that morning. It was 9:00 a.m. over here. And you know the people are going to go up in arms, "Oh, my children." You don't even see them even go to a ballgame without their kids around here. I'd even go to the ballgame to see if their parents... Seems to be they're all latchkey kids around here. But the important thing is we've got to open it up and you can't worry about pressure groups. You got to go ahead and look out for the good and welfare of the citizens. Mayor Martino: Lauren, I think a lesson has been learned here. Let me make a friendly suggestion to everybody. If you're going to come and take on an issue or get into a discussion on an issue such as this, a little more homework has to be done before we bring it to the Council table, and... Councilwoman Furtado: Mr. Chairman, on the point you're bringing up. I guess it's two years of listening to Mr. Carsillo ask for someone to do something and no one would, that I decided I would. I asked for the Police Department to give�a report on what they felt. I just found out this morning that there was another report done that I knew nothing about. So, if I had known about that report earlier I would have gone after it earlier. 8 • Mayor Martino: Did you go through the City Manager's Office? Councilwoman Furtado: Pardon me? Mayor Martino: Did you go through the City Manager's Office? Councilwoman Furtado: About that report? I just found out about the report. Mayor Martino: No, no, no, and I'm not trying to be facetious or smart. I'm just trying to help. Okay. The City Manager is the place that you should have started with the issue before bringing... Councilwoman Furtado: Well, it was public safety, I went through the Police Department., Mayor Martino: Well, you don't do .that. The Charter says you take it to the City Manager, and we wouldn't have had the Police Chief here tonight. We would have had the reports first. Councilman Jablin: Well, I think there's enough time to do that. This has been going on for how many., 18 years ... you don't have to change it tonight. Mayor Martino: Well, let me ... no, we don't have to change it tonight, but I just want to correct the record. The record that is being laid out here is that there hasn't been nothing done on this problem for 20 some odd years. That's utter nonsense, okay. This issue has been discussed. We've had people in these chambers - -Mr. DeLonga, who is sitting out there, has been on the City. Council in the 70's when we discussed this. This is discussed often, and the situation has remained the same. The road has been closed off like it is, and I don't think it'll be changed, as much I love Sam. Okay? I'm not going to vote to change it. I don't even need to discuss it. Now to say that nothing's been done or nobody has paid attention is simply not the truth. There's been a lot of studies done. There's reports here that say what we're doing is in essence a safe way to handle the problems that are out there regardless of what was done in Riviera Beach or Singer Island. What we're doing ;over there is safe; it's been studied, it's been engineered... a Councilwoman Furtado: Is it legal? Mayor Martino: And it's legal. I As far as the policy of this Council is concerned, it's legal. Now, enough said on that issue, unless there's somebody else that wants to say something. Vice Mayor Russo: I just want to say on that particular issue, I believe two years ago there was a vote that took place to look to study additional on that. I think it was only a couple of years ago, and it got voted down. I remember because I... Mayor Martino: I think if you sit here long enough everybody's going to vote it down, so... Vice Mayor Russo: I voted - -I wanted to have somebody look at it. I mean I wanted to have the engineers look at it and so forth and I think I made the motion. I don't know whether I had a second on it, but I know it got voted down and everybody said - -it's been well studied. We're done with that issue. Mayor Martino: I think so. Are you done with that issue? Got any more? jh 3/5/93 excerpt.hol 10