HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Council 010793ANNOUNCEMENTS
PRESENTATIONS
ITEMS BY CITY
MANAGER
✓`,
CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
CITY OF PALM BEACH GARDENS
JANUARY 7, 1993
The Regular Meeting of the City Council of the City of Palm Beach
Gardens, Florida, was called to order by Mayor Martino at 8:00
P.M., in the Assembly Room of the Municipal Complex, 10500 North
Military Trail, Palm Beach Gardens, Florida; and opened with the
Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
The City Clerk called the roll and present were Mayor Martino,
Vice Mayor Russo, Councilwoman Monroe, Councilman Jablin (arrived
at 8:07 p.m.), and Councilwoman Furtado,
The Mayor stated the announcements were as posted on the City's
bulletin boards.
Mayor Martino presented a plaque to Assistant City Manager Ed
Mitchell who had resigned after 5 -1/2 years with the City of Palm
Beach Gardens to accept the position of Assistant City Manager
with the City of West Palm Beach.
DCA Administrative Hearinq re: County Traffic Element
Mr. Rich Walton commented on a letter from Mr. Paul Bradshaw
concerning this Stem and briefed Council on the status of the
item. He stated an administrative hearing had been scheduled
for March 1993. Responding to questions from Councilwoman
Monroe, he stated there would be a discovery process through
depositions and written requests for records to ensure all data
is available and accurate. He also stated the hearing officer
would evaluate the laws, the City's and the County's arguments,
and would determine if the City is correct. Mayor Martino
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 2
concluded and City Council agreed that the City would leave its
options open and stay in the process.
Comprehensive Plan Amendments of North Palm Beach, Lake Park and
Riviera Beach - Mr. Orr asked for direction from Council whether
to continue to intervene since those cities' plans are given
special treatment by the County, the Treasure Coast Planning
Council, and DCA which is not afforded Palm Beach Gardens. He
stated the City of Palm Beach Gardens must submit traffic
engineering reports showing the effect of proposed projects on
surrounding communities while the other cities are not required
to do so. In response to a question from Councilwoman Furtado,
Mr. Walton stated FAU, Palm Beach County, and Lake Park had
responded to the invitation to the proposed charette.
Councilwoman Monroe suggested that representatives from the
Treasure Coast Planning Council and Palm Beach County be invited
to discuss the process with the City of Palm Beach Gardens and
to explain why they do this. She also stated she has a problem
objecting to Riviera Beach, and Mr. Walton stated they have not
provided the data on what their impacts will be. There was a
consensus of Council to allow staff to remain in the process.
MPO Appointment - Councilwoman Furtado asked to represent the
City of Palm Beach Gardens on the MPO. It was the consensus of
Council that Councilwoman Furtado would be the City's
representative and Vice Mayor Russo would be the alternate.
Planninq and Desiqn Guidelines for PGA Boulevard - This item was
scheduled for workshop on January 14, 1993.
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 3
Draft Proposal by the County for an Ordinance on Water and
Irrigation Conservation - Mayor Martino commented on the cost
of enforcing such an ordinance and then read a statement from
the Municipal League which said "the presumption would be that
all ordinances adopted by the Board of County Commissioners would
apply in the unincorporated areas of the County only" rather than
throughout all municipalities and unincorporated areas as is the
case now. Continuing with the statement, he said, "The County
Commission currently makes the presumption that everything would
be countywide and then leave the burden on municipal governments
to figure out why they should not be part of it." He said this
costs a lot of money and staff time which causes a hardship on
the smaller municipalities. He further stated that should the
Board of County Commissioners determine on a preliminary basis
that a particular ordinance should have countywide applicability,
a draft of that ordinance would be presented to the Board of
Directors of the Municipal League for their review and presented
to the League's general membership prior to first reading of
any ordinance by the County. He stated the key is that any
municipality would tell the County they want to "opt into" it
which would involve relatively little cost. Mayor Martino stated
he had sent the County a memorandum of understanding on this
matter and plans to invite a County Commissioner to attend the
Municipal League Board meeting in January with the hope that
communication problems will be improved.
It was the consensus of City Council that the City Manager would
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 4
advise the County that Palm Beach Gardens already has an
ITEMS BY MAYOR
AND CITY COUNCIL
ordinance pertaining to irrigation and water conservation and
would "opt out" of this particular ordinance.
Performance Evaluation Process for City Manager -
It was suggested by Councilwoman Monroe that the two sample
performance evaluation forms from Lake Park and Lakeland be
combined for use by the City of Palm Beach Gardens. It was the
consensus of City Council that the City Clerk would draw up a
new form using the Lake Park sample. Instead of the "comments"
section, however, there would be space for the following: (1)
"What we like", ( 2 ) "What we want more of", and ( 3 ) "What we
would like done differently"
Vice Mayor Russo asked about the process for replacing Assistant
City Manager Ed Mitchell following his resignation, and Mr. Orr
responded a decision would be made whether to have an "Assistant
City Manager" or an "Assistant to the City Manager ".
Mayor Martino The Mayor stated on December 21st, the County Commission held
its continued public hearing on the amendment concerning the Jog
Road issue. He stated the County Commission had transmitted the
amendment dated January 5th which would begin the process to
remove the road from its Thoroughfare system. Concerning the
interlocal agreement, the Mayor stated Commissioner Marcus had
been appointed to act as a negotiator if necessary with the City
of Palm Beach Gardens. He stated should there be negotiations,
they should be between the local governments and should include
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 5
a County Commissioner and staff, and a member of the City Council
and staff, if necessary. As an alternative, he stated
Commissioner Marcus could be invited to meet with City Council.
Councilwoman Furtado made the motion, seconded by councilman
Jablin, that Councilman Jablin represent the City Council in any
negotiations with the County. Mayor Martino commented the
interlocal agreement which was on the table constituted the
policy of the City of Palm Beach Gardens, and this was the point
of negotiation. Councilwoman Furtado amended the motion,
seconded by Councilman Jablin, to add Vice Mayor Russo as an
alternate in the negotiations. The motion was unanimously
approved by the City Council.
Mayor Martino mentioned a letter he had written to the Elections
Board concerning an additional polling place or precinct in Palm
Beach Gardens. He stated Ms. Jackie Winchester, Supervisor of
Elections, had indicated she would attempt to correct this
deficiency as well as other problems the City Manager had brought
to her attention.
COUNCILWOMAN
FURTADO Following an inquiry from Councilwoman Furtado, Mr. Orr explained
that the Police Pension Board and the Firemen's Trust Fund Board
were two separate, unrelated boards meeting on different dates
and that Jill Hanson represented the Police Officers and not the
Firefighters.
Regarding the charette, Councilwoman Furtado asked that staff
send letters of invitation to Mike Danchek, Co- Chairman of the
Northwest Coalition, Sue Daniels of Jupiter Farms, and Jerry
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 6
Gardner.
Councilwoman Monroe stated there could be some confusion in the
community concerning the difference between the Steering
Committee and the actual charette. She stated she hoped people
serving on the steering committee would have some experience in
that type of activity. She also stated the steering committee,
among other things, would be determining the ground rules
concerning who participates in the final event. Following the
councilmembers discussing various attributes of several potential
members of the steering committee, Councilwoman Monroe offered
a compromise. She stated two people attending next week's
meeting from each local government would be sufficient. If
additional people are needed, those people who have experience
with such events could be invited to attend the charette.
Holly Drive Councilwoman Furtado initiated a discussion concerning Holly
Drive being blocked off during the time period when children are
coming and going to the school. Police Chief Fitzgerald stated
Assistant Chief O'Rourke had been monitoring the situation and
believed perhaps it would be just as safe without the detours.
He stated they could continue to monitor Holly Drive for speeders
and if there were problems, the barricades could be reinstalled.
He indicated most traffic engineers do not advocate the blocking
of roadways on an interim basis.
Mr. Sam Carsillo expressed his objection to police officers being
used instead of maintenance workers to install the barricades.
Councilman Jablin made a motion to remove the barricades;
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 7
however, it was not seconded, and the motion was withdrawn for
further discussion.
Responding to a question from Councilwoman Furtado, Chief
FitzGerald indicated there had been some increase in accidents
in the area when the barricades were in place last year.
Councilwoman Monroe suggested that no action be taken until some
former studies had been reviewed and a public hearing was held.
Vice Mayor Russo agreed that a public hearing should be held
provided at least three Councilmembers were in favor of changing
the policy regarding the barricade. City Manager Orr pointed
out the engineering study conducted in previous years had not
been to determine safety but addressed the number and types of
signs which would be permanent as opposed to the roll -out signs.
Mr. Sam Carsillo stated he and Councilwoman Furtado observed 32
children within an hour which was less children than 10 years
ago. He also stated that the four lanes of traffic should be
opened and that a bicycle /pedestrian path could be built in the
12 -foot wide strip between the road and the sidewalk.
Councilwoman Monroe said she would like to see the engineering
report, and Councilman Jablin agreed the report should be studied
and the parents given an opportunity to address the issue.
Mayor Martino pointed out to Councilwoman Furtado that according
to the City Charter such issues should be researched through the
City Manager prior to being brought before Council. He also
stated this issue had been discussed many times with the result
being the barricades remained in place. He also indicated a
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 8
number of engineering studies had been done which indicated the
current method was a safe and legal way to handle the problems.
A.C. Ducts /P.D. Councilwoman Furtado inquired about the possibility of mold in
the air conditioning ducts in the Police Department and was told
by Mr. Orr new duct work was installed approximately two years
ago, and the Health Department will inspect it as soon as
possible.
VICE MAYOR
RUSSO
Vice Mayor Russo stated he believed it was a
good
idea for the
Mayor and City Council items to come at the end
of the meeting
so the public would not have to stay so late.
COMMENTS FROM
THE PUBLIC
Mr. Sam Carsillo stated having the agenda in
the
local papers
was a good idea. Regarding evaluation of the
City
Manager, Mr.
Carsillo stated he had been evaluating Mr. Orr
for
19 years, and
he recalled a number of instances when Mr. Orr had
been helpful
to him and the public over the years and had
accomplished many
things, while saving the City money. He further commented on
the number of private developments being built which are
inaccessible to the public, and he also said he believed there
was a need for more bicycle paths. He also stated he believed
the City of Palm Beach Gardens should have four councilmembers
from four different districts and a mayor at large.
William Myers Mr. Myers, 1022 Shady Lakes Circle, Palm Beach Gardens, spoke
to the City Council about an article concerning a water
conservation program in the St. Petersburg area in Pinellas
County where 200,000 water saving kits were issued to every home
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETINP, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 9
in Pinellas County with 130,000 more to be issued shortly. He
stated this is the second largest program of this type in the
United States, with the largest being the entire state of
Connecticut. He suggested this is something the City might want
to consider doing on a city -wide basis or encourage the County
to start such a program.
councilwoman Monroe suggested Mr. Myers contact the Water
Management District.
Dr. Milton Stern Dr. Stern of PGA National stated he agreed with everything
discussed concerning the Interlocal Agreement and that he
understands the opposition too well. He stated the County
Commission does expect an Interlocal Agreement, and therefore,
he distributed to Council copies of five approaches he had
compiled which might be acceptable to both the City and County.
CONSENT AGENDA Councilwoman Monroe requested Item #8, Resolution 117, 1992, be
removed from the Consent Agenda.
Councilwoman Monroe made the motion, seconded by Councilwoman
Furtado, that the remaining items on the Consent Agenda be
approved. The motion by City Council was unanimous for approval
of the following items on the Consent Agenda:
1. Approval of Minutes of Regular Meeting of 12/17/92, as
amended.
2. Approval of amendments to Resolution 116, 1992 as directed
by City Council 12/17/92.
3. Proclaiming January 25 -29, 1993, as "Teller Appreciation
Week ".
4. Proclaiming the month of January, 1993, as "National
Volunteer Blood Donor Month ".
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 10
5. Proclaiming 2/18- 2/28/93 as "Shrine Hospital Days ".
6. Proclaiming March 7, 1993, as "Palm Beach Gardens Polo Day ".
7. Resolution 110, 1992 - Amending Resolution 90, 1989, which
created Crystal Bay PUD on Parcel 2 of BallenIsles, by
modifying setback requirements.
9. Resolution 118, 1992 - Minor Amendment to Ordinance 7, 1984,
which created Golden Bear Plaza PUD, re: signage.
10. Resolution 1, 1993 - Approval of PUD Expiration Policy
Statement.
11. Resolution 3, 1993 - Approval of the Plat of "The Gardens
Mall ", created 11/15/84 by Resolution 62, 1984, consisting
of 3 sheets dated 8/92, prepared by Hutcheon Engineers.
RESOLUTION 117,
199 On page 2, Section 5, fifth line, Councilwoman Monroe stated the
word "not" was an error and should be removed. Councilwoman
Monroe made a motion, seconded by Vice Mayor Russo, to approve
Resolution 117, 199A, as amended, approving a roadway,
landscaping and signage site plan within the City which shall
service a golf driving range and a miniature golf putting course
with accessory facilities located within the Town of Lake Park.
The motion was unanimously approved by the City Council.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
RESOLUTION 1,
Mayor Martino declared the Public Hearing open, which was duly
advertised on 12/23/92 and held on the intent of Resolution 1,
1993, granting a conditional use and distance variance in CG-
1 Zoning District to allow the retail sale and service of beer
and wine for on- premise consumption at Carmine's Gourmet Market,
located in the Harbour Shops Shopping Center. There being no
comments from the public, Mayor Martino declared the Public
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 11
Hearing closed.
Councilwoman Monroe made a motion, seconded by Councilman Jablin,
to approve Resolution 1, 1993. The motion was unanimously
approved by the City Council.
ORDINANCE 1,
1993 Ordinance 1, 1993, amending Chapter 30 of the Palm Beach Gardens
Code to provide for a curfew on adjournment of City Council
meetings, and other administrative changes, was scheduled by
Mayor Martino for the January 14, 1993, City Council Workshop.
Councilwoman Monroe made the motion, seconded by Vice Mayor
Russo, to place Ordinance 1, 1993, on first reading. The motion
was unanimously approved by the City Council. The City Clerk
read, by title only, on first reading, Ordinance 1, 1993.
EMS. S FOR
DISCUSSION
Parcel 1.10 Mr. Rich Walton stated staff had reviewed the environmental
preservation plan proposed by Pulte Homes Corporation for the
80 -acre parcel located east of Frenchman's Creek and west of
Crystal Pointe which was formerly known as Starwood. He stated
staff was recommending approval of the plan as currently
proposed. He pointed out that the site had an unusually high
number of gopher tortoises, possibly because of migration from
nearby development.
Mayor Martino clarified that City Council had established a
policy to avoid overburdening petitioners with financial
obligations by reviewing the petitions when there is application
to the Environmentally Sensitive Lands Ordinance and give
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 12
direction, if necessary, prior to initiating the planning and
zoning process. He stated should any concerns be raised, the
record should not reflect any indication of approval or denial
for the finality of the project.
Mr. James F. Schnell, Jr., P.E., Consultant, gave Council an
overview of his project review activities to date. He described
the location of the site and also discussed the wildlife,
especially the abundant gopher tortoises, and the vegetation
found. Councilwoman Furtado questioned Mr. Schnell about
relocating gopher tortoises which might be diseased and the
number of acres required for each tortoise. Mr. Schnell stated
they would probably sample every fourth tortoise to see if there
were any problems, and the details would be worked out with the
Fresh water Fish and Game Office in Vero Beach. He said if
diseased tortoises were found, the preserve area size could be
increased and perhaps the areas that are already being preserved
could be overstocked. He said one -half acre per tortoise has
been used and is dependent on a number of things. He said the
applicant would provide a management plan in which they would
be enhancing the habitat of the existing tortoises. Responding
to additional questions from Councilwoman Furtado, he stated,
the west side of the site where there were a lot of weeds,
brazilian pepper, and caesar weeds would be cleaned up so that
it would be a more valuable tortoise habitat. He said a permit
would be required and whatever is done would have to be done in
compliance with State regulations. In addition, he said there
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 13
is a sequencing technique or process for a permit with the Water
Management District which involves "avoidance, minimization, and
then mitigation ". Concerning certain endangered plant species,
he stated these would be either preserved where they were
presently located or relocated on site.
Councilwoman Monroe questioned whether the reviewing agencies
had to transmit their findings and comments to the City, and she
would like to know what those findings were. Mr. Schnelle stated
he would recommend that the City receive carbon copies of all
correspondence. Mr. Walton stated a PUD site plan had not been
submitted at this stage, but when it had been submitted they
would be looking at everything in more detail. He also stated
the mitigation would come prior to platting and construction
drawings. Regarding mitigation, Councilwoman Monroe stated she
would like the City Council's policy to routinely ask for
information concerning any recommendations made for Palm Beach
Gardens. Mr. Walton responded all the agencies mentioned require
far more wetland preservation than Palm Beach Gardens.
Responding to questions from Vice Mayor Russo, Mr. Schnelle
stated he recommended approval of the 10.25 acre upland preserve
area, and Mayor Martino stated Council was not really approving
anything. He stated the only thing they were doing was ensuring
that the parameters of the Environmentally Sensitive Lands
Ordinance were being met. He stated the only issue being dealt
with by Council was the issue of the Environmentally Sensitive
Lands Ordinance, and it was Council's policy to ask the
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 14
petitioner to come to Council first to ensure the environmental
concerns were being met. Once this was done, the petitioner
would be allowed to go through the planning and zoning process
which would address some of the other concerns which had been
raised. Mayor Martino again emphasized no approval was being
given on anything at that time other than to say, "You may now
begin the process because we think you have met the intent of
the Sensitive Lands Ordinance." He stated although other local
governments did not offer that, because Palm Beach Gardens is
vitally concerned about the environment, the Council has taken
this additional step.
In addition, he stated there are other agencies who will monitor
the mitigation and any other problems which had been raised.
He said it is the Council's responsibility to make sure those
things have been addressed and satisfied and that the site plan
is ultimately designed to meet the intent of what was presented
originally as well as the concerns of the other agencies.
The motion was made by Councilwoman Monroe, seconded by Vice
Mayor Russo, to authorize staff to allow the petition to proceed
with the instructions to Planning and Zoning being that the
minimum requirements of the Environmentally Sensitive Lands
Ordinance for the time being had been met. The motion was
approved by a vote of 4 ayes and 1 nay. Councilwoman Furtado
cast the nay vote since she believed there were "too many things
to move ahead ".
RCEL IS -
't�LLENISLES Mr. Rich Walton gave an overview of the petitioner's request to
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 15
- amend the Planned Unit Development for Parcel 18 of the
BallenIsles Planned Community District to replace 52 single -
family detached homes with 106 duplexes and to construct a dry
sales model. He stated the Planning and Zoning Commission had
recommended denial of the petition to the City Council; however,
the petitioner had indicated a willingness to work on some of
the concerns and return to the Planning and Zoning Commission.
Mr. Walton pointed out that the project was originally a PCD
approved for a mixed medium density and even with doubling the
density, they fell well within the allowable densities.
Mr. Ray Royce, on behalf of the applicant, stated the Planning
and Zoning Commission had been concerned about the number of
units, streetscape, garage doors; and there had been a 4 -3 vote
to deny the petition. Following meetings involving himself, the
petitioner, and the consultant, Mr. Royce stated they had decided
it would be best if the matter returned to the Planning and
Zoning Commission after making the desired changes; and he
requested Council to direct the petition back to the Planning
and Zoning Commission.
Regarding the temporary "dry" sales model, Mr. Royce stated they
would like to build one -half of a building prior to approval of
the project because it was important from a timing standpoint.
He presented to Council a list of conditions with which the
petitioner would comply should Council approve the model. He
stated the units would be in the $175 - 200,000+ range, and
compared the units to others in developments such as PGA National
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 16
and Frenchman's Creek. He stated it was extremely important to
receive approval for the model quickly because market studies
had shown that most sales would occur between February and April
which would benefit BallenIsles as well as the City.
Vice Mayor Russo expressed his fear that potential buyers would
be given a false sense of security if the model were constructed
prior to approval of the project, and Mr. Royce said all the
facts would be revealed to potential buyers who would not be
required to sign a contract until after the project was approved.
Councilwoman Monroe said she was concerned that the sales people
would not give prospective buyers the complete story concerning
the fact that the project had not yet been approved. Mr. Royce
responded they would only be using in -house sales personnel who
would not do anything to destroy the company's credibility or
subject themselves to liability.
Councilman Jablin asked if they were selling a neighborhood or
a floor plan and said he believed if the people see a floor plan,
they will want to see the lots as well. Mr. Royce responded that
by the time the model is built, they should have been through
the approval process.
Councilwoman Monroe suggested the house could be built if it
remained locked and the City held the key until the project
received approval. Attorney Brant stated he thought such an
arrangement would place the city in peril and suggested an
additional condition be added.
Following further discussion, Mayor Martino asked for consensus
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 17
of Council to a sixth condition which would state, "The Hanson
Florida II Corporation will not in any way demonstrate, market,
or use as a sales tool the mockup building until it has received
approval through the Planning and Zoning process and by the City
Council."
Mr. Brant suggested a resolution be brought back to the City
Council at the next regularly scheduled meeting. vice Mayor
Russo again stated he did not feel comfortable with the whole
idea and did not think they should proceed.
Mr. Royce stated he believed the City was legally protected based
on the conditions they had submitted. To protect the City from
a legal standpoint, Mr. Brant recommended an exhibit be submitted
showing a statement that the project had not been approved by
the City, which would be used on any of the petitioner's
documents. Following additional discussion, it was the consensus
of Council to have the City Attorney prepare a resolution for
consideration at a special meeting on January 14, 1993.
Councilwoman Monroe made the motion, seconded by Councilwoman
Furtado, that Parcel 18 petition be remanded back to Planning
and Zoning Commission for reconsideration. Mayor Martino stated
that the 14 conditions of the Planning and Zoning Commission
should also be addressed by the petitioner. The motion was
unanimously approved by the City Council.
It was the consensus of City Council that the revisions would
be presented to the Planning and Zoning Department on Monday
morning, January 11, 1993.
L-
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 18
'p, 2T5 BY MAYOR
AND CITY COUNCIL
Vice Mayor Russo The Vice Mayor reported the chairman of the Recreation Advisory
Board, Chuck Campbell, had resigned, and had been replaced by
Ms. Ronnye Sands. He stated they would be advertising for new
people. He also stated he believed Ms. Bobbie Herakovich,
Recreation Department Director, had done an excellent job
coordinating the Advisory Board. Vice Mayor Russo stated he
would be unable to attend the upcoming Advisory Board breakfast
because of a conflict and requested that in the future the Mayor
and Council be given an opportunity to check their calendars
prior to dates being set for such events. He also stated he
believed the Mayor and Council should have been invited to the
City Employees Barbecue, and he was disappointed that the City
no longer had a Christmas party.
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING, JANUARY 7, 1993 Page 19
,.,JOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, the meeting was
adjourned at 11:09 P.M.
APPROVAL
MAYOR MICHAEL MAR�TINO
r'
ZCE ko� �k-'�OE RtSSO
f
COUNCILWOMAN LAUREN FURTADO
- -fIWDA V. KOSIER, CITY CLERK
jh
IDI944AIQMAN LINDA MONROE
LIN
EXCERPT
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 7, 1993
Councilwoman
Furtado: I wanted to bring up what Mr. Carsillo brought up
at the last meeting. I met him at 7:00 o'clock on
Holly Drive. No doughnuts and coffee though, Sam.
You didn't give me doughnuts and coffee, after I was
here until 1:00 o'clock. Anyway, Sam and I stood
on the side of the road from 7:00 o'clock until
quarter of 9:00 watching to see what would happen;
and it was interesting to me that until the road was
blocked off the kids were riding and walking their
bikes on the pedestrian/ bicycle path, and there was
no problem. The minute the sign went out everybody
left the sidewalks 'and went to the streets. I spoke
to the - -Chief Fitzgerald and Assistant Chief
O'Rourke on the issue and, unfortunately, they
couldn't be here tonight, but they are looking into
several things. Something happened today that's a
good example of one of their concerns. After the -
-as the Police Officer was getting ready to put out
the school signs, a school bus broke down on the
eastern - -the southern -most lane that you'd be
traveling east on; so that once the road was blocked
and the traffic is coming now, you know, going two
ways on one side, there'd be almost- -you can't see
past the school bus. So, you would have had a
horrible traffic jam.
Assistant Chief O'Rourke happened to be in the area
and saw it happening, but then heard the officer
say, "Well, wait a minute. We can't close off the
road because we have a vehicle out of commission,"
which was good; but- then they had to stand there and
direct traffic down both sides because normally the
road is closed off, during school time outs. So,
there was a big fiasco. I wish he could have been
here tonight so he could have explained it a little
bit better. This is one of their concerns.
Vice Mayor
Russo: ...He was just here.
Councilwoman
Furtado: He was? The Chief—.?
Vice Mayor
Russo: He was just outside.
Councilwoman
Furtado: Is he still out there? The Chief, yes, oh good.
Chief, I need you.
•
Sam Carsillo: That was on the south side of the road.
Councilwoman
Furtado: Right.
Councilman
Jablin: Going east.
Councilwoman
Furtado:
We're talking about the sidewalks on Holly Drive,
Chief, and I was just telling the Council what I
had observed the morning I was there, if you could
help enlighten us on the issue.
Police Chief
FitzGerald:
Yes, I was speaking to the Assistant Chief O'Rourke
who has been monitoring the situation, and it's his
opinion that perhaps it would be just as well and
just as safe without the detours; and we would
continue to monitor Holly Drive in the morning and
the afternoon when school goes in and lets out with
our motorcycle officers and if we had to enforce
the speed with radar, we would do that, but as a
high school, I think if we notify the school that
we're going to change the program, they would let
the students know. I don't think there would be
major problem. 'If in fact we did take the
barricades down for a trial period and discovered
there were problems, we can always resume the
barricades. But most of your traffic engineers that
I have spoken to over my career do not advocate
blocking off roadways. I tried to do it at Singer
Island at the beachfront, put out roll -out signs,
and they told me they would advise against those
kinds of things.
Mayor Martino: Somebody want to make a motion to take the
barricades down?
Councilwoman
Furtado: Sam, did you have some questions, too, that you
wanted to say?
Sam Carsillo: Well, I'm going to speak when it's my turn to speak,
and I'll elaborate a little; but I... it was there,
.but the only thing,I feel bad about, and I wanted
the Chief to know about this because I was going to
come see him one day this week, because that
pertaining to the officers, when I see them roll out
all them wheels out there and the road is blocked
2
Councilman
Jablin:
Councilwoman
Monroe:
Vice Mayor
Russo:
off here and the police is on the other side trying
to direct traffic, they're doing a lot of
maintenance work when they're pulling out the signs
out there. I think sometimes two, three officers
are tied up when they could be going ahead and doing
their official duties, and all they're doing
maintenance work where some maintenance guy could
get over there and just roll the wheels out early
in the morning, and then roll them back whenever
it's necessary. That's the only objection that I
have as far as the professional police are doing.
I'd like to see them do their own job and not do
maintenance work. But I'm going to elaborate on
Holly Drive, and if you want me to I can do it right
now. But I'd like to tie that all in with my other
grievances that I've got.
I don't want to take the wind out of your sails,
Sam, but I make such a motion because I truly
believe that the Chief's got a good point there.
Mr. Chairman,
I second it...
I don't like...
Mayor Martino: Is there a second to the motion to...Lauren.
Councilwoman
Furtado: I just wanted to ask the Chief a question before we
went ahead with the motion.
Councilwoman
Monroe: Could I ... would you withdraw your motion just so,
I want to make a comment before the motion is made.
Councilman
Jablin: I withdraw my motion... certainly, go right ahead.
Councilwoman
Furtado: Do you feel that we're accomplishing what I would
assume that was what was set out to do is protecting
people's lives, making it safer. Do you think we're
actually doing that? Have there been any noticeable
number of increase in accidents when the road is
blocked off versus when it isn't blocked off?
3
Police Chief
FitzGerald: I think when we did a review, the Assistant Chief
did a review with the Traffic Sergeant, that we did
notice some increase when the barricades were up
over the last year:
Vice Mayor
Russo: Increase in accidents?
Police Chief
FitzGerald: Right. When the barricades were in place.
Councilman
Jablin: How long have the barricades been this way?
Police Chief
FitzGerald: I don't know. I've only been here 3 months.
Councilwoman
Monroe: More than 16 years...
City Manager
Orr: Since 1965.
Councilman
Jablin: Predates me.
Police Chief
FitzGerald: 27 years.
Councilwoman
Monroe: Mr. Chairman?
Mayor Martino: Yes, Linda.
Councilwoman
Monroe: I would like to suggest before me make this motion,
suggest that we hold of f for the benef it of , there' s
been quite a change up here since the last time that
we were nearly tarred and feathered over this issue.
Somewhere in our archives, John probably won't want
me to make this suggestion, but I' d like to at least
for the benefit of all of us, to look at, we did a
study way back when. I'd like to dust that off and
let us take a look at it one more time before we
make the rash decision.
Councilman
Jablin: Should we have a public hearing over this? Do you
think the public should be, to get a little input
from the public....I mean you know .... tarred and
4
Councilwoman
Monroe:
Vice Mayor
Russo:
Councilwoman
Monroe:
Councilwoman
Furtado:
Vice Mayor
Russo:
Councilwoman
Furtado:
Vice Mayor
Russo:
Councilwoman
Furtado:
Vice Mayor
Russo:
City Manager
feathered.
I think it would be wise.
...I wouldn't want to have a public hearing unless
you have three votes up here to change it at this
point.
That's true.
Well I'd like to see what the study said...
I mean, my concern is, with all due respect to
everyone, is the safety of the children down there
and the residents and so forth; and I know that they
went through a whole big thing and a whole big study
and there's been a lot of discussion on the previous
thing, rather than go just change it, I, you know,
I just would like...
Do you know what the study said? Did you ever see
the study, Joe?
No, I remember, it was brought up a couple of years
ago, and we brought back some of the information,
but I don't remember exactly what it was.
Do you remember, John, what it said?
I don't remember the whole big thing going way back,
but I know that it was a whole big thing. So I think
that before we were going to change it, if you did
get a second on the motion to discuss it, I was
going to suggest a,public hearing, but I just, you
know, I think we should decide whether there's three
votes to change it before you're going to have the
public hearing and 'Maybe get people upset that don't
need to be upset. So I think Linda's suggestion was
the best - -bring it all back, what was originally
there. Look at that and then decide whether we
want...
5
Orr: Well, the study was not to determine safety or not.
We looked at how many kids were traveling up from
the school at that'time, but the study that we did
was looking at the number of signs that would be
permanent as opposed to having to roll out the
signs. And we got, that was an engineer's study
that was done, and the number of signs that you
would have to put out would make it look like a
Christmas tree, and it would violate the total
intent of our Sign Code if you ever put the number
of signs out there. I think, based on the study
itself, it would probably be more confusing than it
is today to try to read all those signs as you went
up and down the roadway . What we had was flip signs
at every intersection and every cross section. We
had flip signs that at certain hours you would,
could ride on both sides of the roadway. They would
be closed off one hour in the morning, one hour in
the afternoon, flip the signs back over, you know,
just a nightmare. 1 So that was the extent of the
study.
councilman
Jablin: I don't know if you've ever been through Washington,
D.C. I'm sure most of you have been through
Washington, but a lot of the streets in Washington
have that same configuration that during rush hour
one lane going north will convert to a northern lane
and south to a southern lane in the morning, and it
is confusing, I'll tell you. I've been there many
times and it...
Sam Carsillo: Mr. Chairman, on a point of information, I was
speaking a little while ago. I didn't want to be
cut off because I thought we were just going to cut
off the debate on that, but just keep apples with
apples and beans with beans. Forget about
Washington, D.C., forget about everything else.
Let's just talk about Holly Drive, that it's a
necessity for twenty -three years I know of, that it
was cut off like that and it's twenty -three years
later, and it's still the same thing. We've got our
heads in the sand and nobody wants to pull it out.
Now, she and I were standing on that corner of
Dasheen and Holly Drive. I got her purposely on the
sidewalk to show her because every morning I go up
that route, and I showed her, let's get off the
sidewalk, here come the bicycles. And sure in Hell,
all the kids came with their bicycles. And I said
watch these little youngsters now. We're worrying
about the little kids. They come down on the
sidewalk, and a quarter after 7:00 the police was
ME
• •
out there doing their job, and they start putting
out the signs. As.soon as the signs went out there
you get a couple of stragglers riding two lanes now
going to school. I counted approximately 32 kids
in the course of about an hour, and they all were
stragglers and blocking up two lanes and riding down
and walking around and just ... with one another. But
the only problem we've got is the bottleneck down
there at the Thompson River because you only got one
bike can go across it. These kids are a little
anxious to get across the bridge not around the side
where the road where the cars are coming in. So
we've got to go ahead and do something about that
and open up the four lanes. It isn't going to do
no harm...There's less kids today than there was 10
years ago.
Mayor Martino: Sam, let me see if I can get a motion up here to get
some kind of action going here.
Sam Carsillo: No, I don't want to cut you off either, my fellow,
I've got the floor. The important thing is
this... say these guys were going to get a ... on the
south side. I told them it's foolish. You got all
palm trees, you've got anything and everything in
the swale there. That's no good. We've got to go
to the north side. If you want to go ahead and
protect the kids, there's approximately 12 feet wide
from the road up to the sidewalk. Now you can sure
in Hell make a bicyclist and pedestrian walkway
providing you put up the signs. The law says that
the bicycles are a vehicle, and they must be on the
street. But no, we can make room for them because
we've got 12 feet for them to walk and ride that
bicycle. All you have to do is just put one line
down there -- bicyclists, pedestrians. There'll be
no more problems with that road.
Mayor Martino: I'm trying to get this thing to a head here, Sam.
Does anybody want 'to make a motion to remove the
barricades from Holly Drive?
Sam Carsillo: I make that motion; Mr. Chairman.
Mayor Martino: Okay, let's see if any of your representatives here
want to do that for you.
Councilwoman
Monroe: I want to make a motion to see that report.
Councilman
Jablin: I made a motion for the sake of discussion, but I
7.
don't think that we should do it tonight without a
report because, Sam, I've got to tell you this...
Sam Carsillo: I agree with you. Let's table it and we'll get the
report...
Councilman
Jablin: I don't think we should table it. We should study
it, but not study it ad nauseam, Sam. I think study
it for the sake of; all of those parents out there
who may feel the other way and don't have a voice
in this, but I am sure that if we study it and we
find that it's safer for them to do it the way you'd
like to do it, and I'm telling you I had children
who went to the elementary school as well. I've
traveled down that road, and I agree with you. But
I think for the sake of those parents who now have
children in those schools, we should give them an
opportunity to talk to this issue so that we don't
get tarred and feathered over this. I think they
deserve the input, that's all.
Sam Carsillo: That was taken in 1982. February of 1982 Mr.
Kiselewski had a meeting with the parents at that
morning. It was 9:00 a.m. over here. And you know
the people are going to go up in arms, "Oh, my
children." You don't even see them even go to a
ballgame without their kids around here. I'd even
go to the ballgame to see if their parents... Seems
to be they're all latchkey kids around here. But
the important thing is we've got to open it up and
you can't worry about pressure groups. You got to
go ahead and look out for the good and welfare of
the citizens.
Mayor Martino: Lauren, I think a lesson has been learned here. Let
me make a friendly suggestion to everybody. If
you're going to come and take on an issue or get
into a discussion on an issue such as this, a little
more homework has to be done before we bring it to
the Council table, and...
Councilwoman
Furtado: Mr. Chairman, on the point you're bringing up. I
guess it's two years of listening to Mr. Carsillo
ask for someone to do something and no one would,
that I decided I would. I asked for the Police
Department to give�a report on what they felt. I
just found out this morning that there was another
report done that I knew nothing about. So, if I had
known about that report earlier I would have gone
after it earlier.
8
•
Mayor Martino: Did you go through the City Manager's Office?
Councilwoman
Furtado: Pardon me?
Mayor Martino: Did you go through the City Manager's Office?
Councilwoman
Furtado: About that report? I just found out about the
report.
Mayor Martino:
No, no, no, and I'm not trying to be facetious or
smart. I'm just trying to help. Okay. The City
Manager is the place that you should have started
with the issue before bringing...
Councilwoman
Furtado:
Well, it was public safety, I went through the
Police Department.,
Mayor Martino:
Well, you don't do .that. The Charter says you take
it to the City Manager, and we wouldn't have had the
Police Chief here tonight. We would have had the
reports first.
Councilman
Jablin:
Well, I think there's enough time to do that. This
has been going on for how many., 18 years ... you don't
have to change it tonight.
Mayor Martino:
Well, let me ... no, we don't have to change it
tonight, but I just want to correct the record. The
record that is being laid out here is that there
hasn't been nothing done on this problem for 20 some
odd years. That's utter nonsense, okay. This issue
has been discussed. We've had people in these
chambers - -Mr. DeLonga, who is sitting out there, has
been on the City. Council in the 70's when we
discussed this. This is discussed often, and the
situation has remained the same. The road has been
closed off like it is, and I don't think it'll be
changed, as much I love Sam. Okay? I'm not going
to vote to change it. I don't even need to discuss
it. Now to say that nothing's been done or nobody
has paid attention is simply not the truth. There's
been a lot of studies done. There's reports here
that say what we're doing is in essence a safe way
to handle the problems that are out there regardless
of what was done in Riviera Beach or Singer Island.
What we're doing ;over there is safe; it's been
studied, it's been engineered...
a
Councilwoman
Furtado: Is it legal?
Mayor Martino: And it's legal. I As far as the policy of this
Council is concerned, it's legal. Now, enough said
on that issue, unless there's somebody else that
wants to say something.
Vice Mayor
Russo: I just want to say on that particular issue, I
believe two years ago there was a vote that took
place to look to study additional on that. I think
it was only a couple of years ago, and it got voted
down. I remember because I...
Mayor
Martino: I think if you sit here long enough everybody's
going to vote it down, so...
Vice Mayor
Russo: I voted - -I wanted to have somebody look at it. I
mean I wanted to have the engineers look at it and
so forth and I think I made the motion. I don't
know whether I had a second on it, but I know it got
voted down and everybody said - -it's been well
studied. We're done with that issue.
Mayor
Martino: I think so. Are you done with that issue? Got any
more?
jh
3/5/93
excerpt.hol
10