HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Council 052881IJ
CITY COUNCIL
WORKSHOP MEETING
CITY OF' PALM BEACH GARDENS
MAY 28, 1981
The 'rdorkshop Meeting of the City Council of Palm Beach Gardens was tailed
to order by Mayor Kiedis at 7:30 P.M. in the Assembly Room, 10500 North
`111rtary Trail, Palm load, Gardens, Florida, and was opened with the Pleage
of All,.giance to thf Flag.
POLL CALL_ he roll was called by the City Clerk and present were: ,Mayor Kiedis, Vice
i,icr;cir Martino, Councilman Aldred, Councilwoman Monroe, and Councilman
r.isc,lewski. City hianaE;er John Orr and .Attorney William Brant ware also in
a *tandance.
1,,7t.I'VIEW Oc APPLICANTS FOR h2KT SYSTEI' DOARD AND IOiITi2G BOARD OF' APPEAL?
The purpose of tuts portion of the rneeting was to interview prospective
applicants for the Merit System: Beard and Zoning Board of Appeals vrith the
f ^1'_oNinF; nnmPd ,,er -cans being considered
Larry Hood - ?! °rit System Doard
George 1i. Duncan - Merit System Board
Oliver Vanosse - Merit System Board /Zoning Board of Alopeals
,,ucan Ford - Aerit Svstcm Board
Charles 3reder - Zoning Board of Appeals
1;,,,n'Ji1CL'ENT iav2r Eirdir announced the Yo11otJ1nf-.
r,aetl r- oI the Site Flan an i } "i,patirarce RC.-ia *r Comml? t
y ,
.L 7: 10 :.;1.
RECON-;Ec;5AT -Ji S FR7)M TAE MERIT �YLTFEI I ROA, D ,�
Ile . Charles Dodge, Chairman o1' the City's .Merit System Board, was in
rttendance to address the Council re: Salary Comparisons.
Ir. Dodge stated over the past few months the Merit board has been reviewing
-alary ces- _riptions! positions in the City and how they relate to the sur-
roundln, municipalities. The, municipaliCie; that, were included in the
salary comparison were: Riviera Beach, Lake Parr, North I .l,n D :_,3ch, -,nd
Jupi --er. T!�c ,lob positions and salaries examined were the City Manager,
Building Gfficial, Polioc, Chief D_irc,ct-or of Public Works, and non- supervis-
cry positions. In doing these surveys', they found basically, the City of
Palen beach Garden's salaries were less than those municipalities referenced,
arc tFt. benufLts of each concerned wer'�, comparah.le to the City's. The
1 ",exit. Board's intention is to prevent a turn -over of the employees in the
City and Nr. Dodge stated now is the time to look into salary scaled by
City Council Workshop Meeting, 5 /28/81.
Page -2-
upgrading, if necessary, revise position descriptions, put in step /rating
programs, etc. There is a great deal of work involved in doing the surveys'
®
and before they proceed, they would like the Council to give them direction
to go further.
The members of the Council agroed that the rierir. Board has done a good job
and unanimously concurred that they proceed with the salary surveys' and
hopefully have it co:aplc1_oJ by the upcoming budget for 1981 -82.
ITEiIS RY THE CITI
IKANAGER:
LETTER OF RES-
Tne City Manager br efly discussed the letter of resignation from the City
L(:1NAT] "A FR0;1
Cleric with the Council. It was a unanimous concensus of the Council that
LINDA hll , C ITE"
�:LLJFP"
they did not wish for her to resign, and suggested that the City Clerk
meet with the City [tanager and schedule a time anc] date to meet with the
Ce'unc Ll to air her concerns.
I "TIILEY -H R:;
The City ilanager stated he has received a letter from Kimley -Horn, Assoc.,
hich gives a hreakdcwn of a traffic study and ,r ^ ^csals for roadway work
:O:c JLI
within the City re: 1) Larch A,7e. at Military Trail; 2) Holly Drive in
ic�nity of High C :,00l: 3) City Fall and Rr: creation Complex.; � -) [•IacArthur
E,Ivd. at Li ht;,cu Drive. ',Ir. Orr recommer_ded t; at in referenr.e to item
71 the; are trvin- to jct the Count; ~c tar:c care of it, its„ S2 has been
taken care ,_" and seep: ^_nLe in `hc .,.,r orer encive Land Use flan. Ttem #3
,,a3 done by the City gin r, a: a rill Dive --ac'n ,:,ter of the Council
tl,e traffic plan as drag.., u;, by ;�Ir. i.i n ;aril . '7t-, '7rr .:mild like to have
%' curr, nta ion on it ^m .4, r la`i. t,; -i ,_...y stop s_Lrn bcinc just'fied,
b,2c,au_,e of the risk bJ asst.umin— .!to that go along wltn
it. Tlie Council unanimously concurred that the City Manager act on item. #4.
City MOnaC;er reported ne is it receipt of i cost brP, k -down from Vern
Laub;, uho has been working with Inter -City regarding the data on the
vi, ;f CNtLL z
IiJ1'ER -CITY
monies for each community based on the number of responses talrced about
yiRS -AI
at th- last meeting re: total dollar input with Inter -City.
1Ir. Orr Stated the w41,006, if it, were given to Tnter- City, would cover
the past debts, most of it comin ;� from Federal Government.
ALDITIOH OF CPST
The City Flanager reported he has ,on seise the County regarding the add -
LAND G ?; yIL.
,r�IL, ROM
it on cf an east lane on i•Iilitary Trail, from Johnson -Dairy Road to north
-
a - AIRY
of Tangleweod, and the County will provide figures on this and get back
RD. TO NORTH
00�
to Mr. Orr. They plan to match what thev did on the west side as to what
they will d,, on the ast side, which would basically put the 2 center lanes
as turn lanes.
It was the concensus of the Council to have the County proceed with these
City Council Workshop Meeting, 5/28/81
plans before they leave the area.
Page -3-
STREFT I €, response to Councilman Kiselewski's request re: a cost estimate for
• c S WITHIN the placement of marking identifying street addresses in the City, the
THE CITY
City Manager reported he has obtained an Ordinance from Riviera Beach
regarding where the street numbers should Le placed, which puts the
burden on the homeowners.
Fire Chief Arrants spoke on street addressing in the City and the various
streets they have had problems with.
Vice Mayor Martino suggested that they take ine Ordinance from Riviera
Beach as well as the comments from Councilman Kiseleviski and have the
City Manager prepare a cover letter to the effective department heads for
referral back to the City Council, and at the same time to refresh Senator
"Skip" Bafaais's memory on the times the Council has requested to have
the struts within the City re- addressed.
REPORTS:
COUNCiLIIIAN Councilman Kiselewski reported on the inaugural of the Student Government
'-.1SELEWSKI at PBGHS in which he, the City Manager and Vice Mayor flartino had attended.
COUNCILI�iAN Councilman Aldred reported on tce Merit System Board meeting he attended
LD F1,ZL)
on NIay 26, 1981, and ti:a �,,e minutes will be on file in the City Clerk's
office.
MAYOR K TEDIS Xayor Kieais reported on the meeting of the ?Tanning and Zoning Commission
held ia. 2t,7 1931, and these minuteS will be on file in the office of
the Citv Clerk.
ITEi�7�S E MAYOR 1A.ND Councilman Kiselewski suggested tha:, the Coun,--ll establish a time to
C"0U Y(' -I_L re c4 e A e. � ze
discuss the latlon. ail of th:. City and the S nior C�t_��ns group based
on the City Manager's r,. port, for a 'vlorksnop meeting in the near futare.
Councilman Fla clewski reported on an organization called "latiorai Youth
Cports Coaches Association" which is a non - profit organization, founded
by Sporting r_,00ds Manufacturing Association. Their wl,�ole basis is to
trail volunteer coaches in the psychological aspect of coaching and basic
funda€r,ent,alr of cuachin,; and first -aid.
Mr. Doug Hood, Director of Recreation and Parks, stated that he has
attended d meeting concerning the NYSCA and has passed the information
onto the Youth Athletic Association.
COLNr L'•.iQ,1 ?h Ccun,iiwoman Mcnroc stated that she his spoken to Past Mayor Sam Laurie
10 €VROE who was recently injured in a traffic accident, and reported he is coming
along fine.
City Council Workshop Meeting, 5/28/81
Page -4-
RESOLUTIONS:
® kESOLUT_[ON J4z During the Workshop Session on Resolution 34, 1981, reappointing /appointing
1931 members of the City's Merit System Board, the Council inserted the names of
�1c:yer Kesner and Charles Dodge in the blanks of Sectior) 1, for the terms of
three years respectively; inserted the name, of Susan Ford and Larry Hood in
the blanks of Section 2 for a term of 3 years; and .inserted the name of
George H. Duncan as alternate member in the ')lank of Section 3 for a term of
1 year.
Resolution 34, 1951, will be considered for adoption by the Council at their
R(_,gular Meeting of June 4, 19F1.
RESOLL ION J --, Durin., the Worksnop Session on Resolution 35, 1931, appointing an Alternate
au
11 i•;ember to he City's Gerring Board of Appeals, the Council inserted the name
Charier, 3reder in the blank of Section 1 for a term of 1 year.
^ esolution 35, 1981. will be considered for adopts, y the Council at their
Regular ;]eeting of June 4, 1981.
OFD1'r:ANC-S:
OF,DINANCE ;, During the Workshop Session en Ordinance ;, 1981, providing for the annexation
o of 39 -acres located north of the unicorporated "Woodberry Lakes" project on
PSA Boulevard, concurrent wit' the creation of the "Shad; kes" single family
FUD, 1,1r. David Risinger, Landscape Architect wit-, Urban Design Studio,
addressee the Council statiDg tliey wish to ann,;x this area into the City and
create a PJD consisting of 9,F single family lots ranfZin), in si.,e from 1f',000
square feet to 12,000 square feet. The de-;elopers propose tc devalcp at tneir
oim expense, 1800 linear feet of Central 3oulevard, which is 9 County rignt-
of -way, proLra:mv)Ejd to be a four -lane median- divided thorotignfdre in the
future. Nr. Risin,;er stated they are proposin, a passive recreation area with
a tazebo and picnic area surrounding the two lakes proposed in this develop -
ment.
Nr. Rl.,:rig1,r di ;cussed the propo: red locat.inna of stred: lightinf . Florida
Power and Light has requested tnat this proposal be reviewed with the Council
_, to th, located aia types of fixtures that •rill be installed i n the cul -de-
cac areas and at points of turning. As part of their agreement, before the
roads are dedicated to the City, Florida Power and Light requested a letter
from the City agreeing to the proposed locations and types of fixtures,
,;hLch w-,11 include 1G standard Fr,&L, fixtures. The medians off of Central
boulevard will contain 4 aluminum Kem -type ljght fixtures located at the
entry, to accentuate the median and to be maintained by the homeowner's
association.
City Council Workshop Fleeting, 5/28/81
Page -5-
During their discussion, the Council suggested that another light be in- -
stalled at the second left turn as you come into the property. Another
area of concern expressed, was the lighting around the lakes, since it will
be co
rT non property, perh.Aps so:r,ething ot, t,ne order oC a "low - level" ligl,t
around the lakes. The petitioners were instructed to meet with the C_ty
Manager to discuss tier l.Lghtin�,, around the lakes prior to the Public Hearing
to resolve this question. and at that t mc', the City F;anager will make his
recommendations to the Council on this matter, which will be incorporated
into the Xaster Plan.
The draer:a�,,e for the proie�t was discussed by Mr. Joe O'Neal of Fellows,
Beat, and ?ssoc., in which he stated the calculations have been submitted
tc Louth logic .at ?r Eanagement District and they are in the process of
rev�.vwrn,, tnc " rl call n The City Engineer has indicated to the City
Manager that ne gees no prctlems with the drainage, and a letter will follow.
ir: t; '3ra - attic t!,at there could be a p:,ssible problem on PGA Blvd.,
in that there i, no median cut at that location. There may be a problem
wjth car:, e-r.itin0 the project Going test and making a U -turn at the median
® cut provided. Pe suggested that trey contact the D -O -T to have the median
cut back to the ingress to this project, Fir. O'Neal stated they have beca
issuea a permit by the D -G -T for a deceleration lane into the property, but
the median cut was not =cussed, and did not think this would cause a
Prot le-i.
lieu of the on -site recre_:ti,2nal ra,itilites, the Council inserted the
of 533,000 in the blank of Cecti,n 5, which .rill be donated to the
ity's r,'cr'•_atioral! land fociliti4-s account to be paid in Phases, One -third
_, a tim_.
In re:p x:se to Poeert Langsfeld, ��hairnan, of the Plannin5 and ZeninS
Co; ^ni si :n Vice [ layor l last ino st atcd ti-,at the Comprehensive Land Use Plan
uc a _.chedule wither: its recreational element, which outlines toe specifics
that the City should follow. What is needed in this portion of the City,
other than un -site facilities as the Planning and Zoning Commission recom-
mended, i; a neiL,,hborhood park along the line of Plant Drive Park, for the
residents to use.
Subsequent to further discussion, a Public Hearing and the Council's
consideration of Ordinance 7, 1981, will take place at their Regular Meeting
of' June 4, 1981. In the meantime, the City Manager will get comments/
suggestions from the DOT regarding the median cut on PGA Boulevard, tnat
should be followed up for future projects to the north of Shady Lakes.
City Council
Workshop Meeting, 5/28/81 Page -6-
03DINANCc 10
At ',heir ReguLAr MeoLino of June 4, 1981, the Council will consider first
JLTI -FLNI Y
readinf of the March 4, 1981 draft of Ordinance 10, 1991, revising the
Tract called "Toimhomes of Marlwood ",
setback requirements for detached utility buildings.
ORi1,idA1dCL llr
vrdrn -ance 11, 1981, lrnprosing a firefighting equipment /facilities fee on
ly l
developer; of buildirr -,s two stories, was workshopped by the
Council.
Hank 5kckowski
Fire Chief Arr;3nts was asked tc3 g ve his input on the proposed Ordinance,
anti he stressed the irv-udiat,� nL-e-- of the department, although he endorsed
the Ordinance, he felt it '.pule not solve today's problems.
The Chief asked that consideration be given tc large, less than two story
buildings, such as shopaing center,, as ladder trucks are needed to control
fires in this t}'pe of puildin;l�. i`e further staked that with setbacks of
landsc' pin;, parking, -tc. it could easily take a 100' aerial ladder to
reach the roof of a 2 story building. The equipment could take as long a3
years freer lesi",n 3recif caticns, biadir.g, i,iunufacture and deliver of
such a unit. The Insurance Services Office, with regards to their spec -
ifications, call for a ladder truck wherever there are 5 buildings, 3
®
stories or more in a 2'. mile area of that configuartion. Also, to take
into consideration, that the equi- i)went on the truck is equally as impor,ant
In response to Councilman Kiselewski, the Fire Chief stated that it would
cost k300,000 to bring ,neir equipment up to date.
Ordinance 11, will be resad on first reading on June 4, l;al
At their Cei; ltr ;ieeting of ;•ay 12, 1831, the Planning and Zoning
"j "'' —,i " „ —'''
1111
Comrnic;LOn unanimous-l”
adopted a motion to recommend to the
City Council
JLTI -FLNI Y
approval of the "ii -35"
Tract called "Toimhomes of Marlwood ",
multi - family
I i_� i:. LSO,
PUD, to oe locate] in
the FGA Resort Community.
Prior to the discussion on the "To.rnhomes of Marlwood", Mr.
Hank 5kckowski
President of Urban Design St'idic, handed out a culmative data sheet to
eacn member of the council, bringing them up to date on the latest statis-
tics and site fcr the PGA Notional.
Mr. Skokowori addressed the Council pursuant to the "Townhomes of Marlwood"
multi- family PUD, proposed to be located in the M -35 Tract of Plat 4,
which will contain 14.63 - acres. This area is located in the southeast
earner of Flat G, surrounded by a 0olf course- and lake to the west, and
Ryder Cup Boulevard to the east. There will be a total of 75 units
developed in clusters of 3,4,5,6, & 7. The density proposed will be 5.1
City Council Workshop Meeting, 5/28/81
Page -7-
u;,its per acre. The square footage of these unit; will range in size
from 1441 sq. ft. to 3200 sq. ft, and will be 1 and 2 stories under fee
simple ownership. All units will be of CBS construction with a cedar
shake roof. Each unit will have a two -car garage with a lb' apron. There
,;i2i b� 2 pc�nts of access, one in alignment with the Burwick Subdivision,
",_ north, am the coed ac(-e t�) t.n� south of thic, project. County
Sanitation will be providing curb,idc garbage pick -up.
The recreational amenities will include a pool and bath house and a deck
area. 'Thera will be a total of 10 parking spaces provided there. The
landscaping for this project was addressed by Mr. Winston Lee, Landscape
Architect, and he stated they want to preserve as much of the exisitng
vegetation as possible. They will not be buffering this project from
the park located to the south, as they feel this will be a visual amenity.
During the discussion, a concern was raised by Councilman Kiselewski, in
that he did not feel the parking was adequate for the recreational area,
hoTaever, Mr. Skokowski assured him' that this was enough.
Mr. Joe O'Neal discussed the drainage for the project, and stated that
they are awaiting a response from the City Engineer.
10 Followin, their discussion, the City Attorney was directed to prepare
ecolUtio.: for the `iowrhomes of 11arlwood" at which time a public hear
will be screduled for the secont 7eetin,,� in June.
in August, t�ley c,�jn bring the
up t�) t; „_ ;;ro- ::, developments in the PGA, as far as
the number of un2,s, occupancy and also to discuss the amenities that
,;ere , rer, :ised t }-.e _n urt getting; them on schedule. M r. Skokowski
a;re with t};iL as they ai,;o have to make a report to the Treasure
Ccast in Au,;ust on the same thing.
REVIEW OF THE RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD'S RECOMMENDATION OF APRIL 15, 1991
A cormmunication was addressed from Doug Hood, dated April 15, 1981, in
which the following recommendations were made by the Recreation and Parks
Acvziory °,oard:
11 A traffic study be done at the Garden's Park complex to improve parking
-nc traffic flow,
2) A study conducted to light two of the fields at the Gardens' Park
Complex, plus an overall cost estimate of lighting the whole facility,
i) A break -down of electric cost for Plant Drive Park for comparison of
a lighted Gardens Park facility.
Citv Council 1dorkshcp Meetinu, 5 /28/81
Page -8-
In reference to item 1�1, the Mayor stated that this has been answered
by the City Engineer in the plans he drew up for the parking /traffic
flow at City Hall. The Council would 11ke a study done on items 2 & 3
and the Recreation Director, was requested to ootain a figure as to how
rr,uch it would cost to have a study done.
[L)`: )F FLCRF,ATJ(JN DIRECPUR rL: A HESTHUCTUAE OF THE UEPAi2Yi E,!dT
Regarding the recommendations mady by Mr. Dour; Hood, Director o: Rec-
reat Lon and Parks, the Council concurred with his request that Mrs. Sue
Ruskay be promoted to Assistant Director with a salary increase to
W267.4 5 a week and a title change for Tom Ouinslik to C °nior Supervisor
,rith no additional salary increase at this time. The Council also
,:onc „rred with the proposed organizational chart isr. Hood handed out.
in response to Councilwoman iIonr(,e, the City Manager stated that the
monies are available in the Recreation Department's Budget.
REPAIR OF BASEBALL FACILITIES AT LAKE CATHERI1F
A comma- ication was 2ddrEsseJ from Doug; hood, Director of Recreation
anc Park,,- regarding the da:ra es that were done to the Lake Catherine
..;t c 'J.OU to repair the property
anc. ecu.�sment.
It w,7, the conscr. uo )f �,n,:, tlid ti',a rt'.pair work sh,Duld be
dc-o a5 �(xOn ske. from Council
Coat �ne;: ne,y.
ADDIi•i0 TI4E THE JURISDICTIDi: OF THE CODE Ei:EORCH TENT BOARD, TIE ENFORCE, -Z-N1 OF TEE CITY'S
I ':`1DC -'PE CODE Ai!' CUw'I`AINERI'ATIU• f'
The City Attorney will be preparing; an Ordinance re: adding the
,;url.dictton to tP,�j Coce wnforc�-m�-nt BoDrd, the enforcement of the City'
Landscape `:e and the containerization of rubbish.
In recponse to Councilman KiselF -wski, the City Manager has been researc
in, a solution to the problem of newspapers /advertisements ceing de-
liver,-,d Lo residents who do not wish to receive them. Mr. Orr stated
that there isn't anything in the Code as far as littering, because
they are classified as newspapers, and are completly exempt tc any
newspaper published within 100 miles of the City. The City Manager
,.ai,c.;, fio rrrcr, 1t can bc, aintrolled by an Ordinance in which a person
requested that the papers not be delivered to then; also, Mr. Orr
,tated that tr- City's solicitation. Ordinance may be in violation of
•
J
I
City Council ldorkshop Keeting, 5/26/61
Page -9-
the ist Amendment of the Constitution, in that they can solicit up
until 9:00 r.i;., unleco the residence iu posted for 'Inc soliciting."
The City Attorney was requested to draw up an Ordinance regarding the
delivery of newspapers to residents.
PETITIONS AND CJi-''IUNICATIONS:
Tho following is a verbatim transcript of the discussions on Councilman
Aldred's communication to the Coun--il dated May 26, 1921:
MAYOR KIEDIS:
"Petitions and Communications, Dick do you got anyt'niniT "
CU1J!4CTU,1AN ALDRED:
"Yes, I do, I sent you all a letter dated May 26, 1981, having to do
—��
with the hearings, as were the instructions the evening that we dis-
cus-;ed them. I will discuss in the interest of t. -me the letter in
reversed order. And the first thing I would bring up in one of the
�.onclusions that I have come to is that allegations presented to the
Council, which are anonymous in nature, should not be scheduled far
hearings. Likewise, petitions given to this Council which are riot
specific should not be given hearings. "'., ouggesting that the City
Council entertain a policy decision as was suggested in Rill Brant's
communication to us, page 2 item 7, first paragraph and fourth paragrap
that we adopt a policy that says hearing will not be set unless they
can be backed up by a sworn testimony or vie have a sworn affidavit and
that they are specific."
"CJ,:CIL,1A
"I rave no problem with
I-EL E wl
Ki LIS
Diclx. the thing is excellent, except that yours' are not backed up by
individuals nor is part 3 of mire. Each is in the same category
L7itt1 the exception of .item :41, endorse ,-mint, ate -, #2, signz on my lawn,
item #. -, it is c ::actly i -n the same- category �j„ your's and Mrs. Monroe.
COU,;CIL[:i, ALDRED:
O.K., they're specific, as to letter k2, those allegations are also
specific, 1 have no difficulty with thr fact that they are not specific
I'm sa;ing that they are not backed up by a representative who is
willinE to step forward and prepare an affidavit to that effect."
AYU3 F:IrL'l�:
Ya, so far though in the past month and a half he has not stepped
forward with anything other than the fact that he says if we had some -
oody.
CuUNCa.LFAr , ALDr,BD:
Tharc is a reprf;centativc to whom to reply.
there's nobody there to step forward. I've read an eeitorzal
in the newspaper the other day which touched cnthis subject, whether
they're right cr wrong, I don't know, but they very clearly stated
ah in this case that �1r. Scarola is making statements, he has made no,
he has brought no proof forward on certain allegations, and they
cannot understand why the City Council permitted Jack Scarola to speak
-n the subject because he, in the initial meeting, he said that he was
not, his people did not want to come forth and speak because they
are afraid of reprisals or something in that nature. In otner words,
he wasn't required to produce those people and they weren't going to
divulge their names. Now, supposedly he may or may not, but we don't
City Council Workshop Meeting, 5/28/81 Page -10-
know. The mere fact that he says he has people there that are con-
cerned citizens and that he can present them doesn't really mean
that he will, so why does your situation and Linda's situation, is it
any different than mane?
CCUUCIU,lA;a ALDR ;D
NAYOR
n i I5:
CCUNCIL71AN ALDRED
11 � L;. MAYO:.
NO
J'U:�CILi hP� `r.1SELE�' :,F I
I
CvU,�C1Lf 1i`1 F,LDf`'�Z.
COUivCTL; ]r';( f :1 SELE`,:SKi
VICR
C01); 71CHDIA N ,jELEUSRI
C�JUPICIUTAN PLDRED:
hAYOR KIEDIS:
COUNCILI MAiv ALDPED:
COUNCIUMA i KI: ELDUSKI:
Let's ,lust put it on this basis, I'm asking the Council to entertain
a policy decision, let's address that issue and not the issue of the
letters spec.if'icaliy.
........the policy decision you're `rying to make?
The policy decision would be that the Council would not schedule
hearin .-s unless it was the concensus of the Council that the allega-
tions (A) were specific, and (B) were sworn in affidavit- form by some-
one some person who has a name, and they have to meet both criteria
in order to be heard.
Ti13t's b•it I said the first night when we got the arst letter.
Just Iike in your letter here, your Third paragraph, I agreed with
yr. this letter except when it sajU "it is our position that
failure of the author to step forward ", I think that the term "author
should be changed to "accuser", the accuser should be the one that
steps forward. I see a real problem, first of all, I agree with what
you said there, but 1 see a real problem in having someone anonymously
represented by a second party, be it an attorney or whatever the case
CIKV so, bccaus<., suppose that person were to step up before this
hearing here, and ay you're all sorts of awful thing, defame you, hur
you cerscnally. hurt your `,usiness, hurt whatev� - ;he case may be, wha'
recour;:e do you nave -ack at an anonymous person v:;n is speaking
CIirOULn .,omeore Thf; gu; Who la speaking has a naCn; and address,
bu ti•:i:_ he is re,,r s"ntin. you ', ave nu rccourse back to that person.
" d have �o rifer '.hat juestion to an attornu;
:.ell, you see Q -at s .ahy I think, and I thins; ;;ike was right from
day �,n.�, shc,uld know who w,,`re addressing, regardless of who we're
t Laps about here.
That is exactly the point, if we would have done that the first night,
Dick, what you're sayin„ in the letter, we wouldn't, be where we are
today, or else it would be over with.
Are you further proposint that we dc, not have the hearings scheduled
for next Creek, is that the second portion, or are you talking about
the policy in future beyond that?
No, I'm talk-rig about policy, if ah, we set the policy that there
would be no hearin -,, then I'm prepared to drop the rest of the
discuLso.on on the letter, if not, I'm prepared to proceed.
On the letter, which letter?
This letter, my lettor, my utter to you.
That's where we are, letters and communications.
city Council 'riorksh p Fleeting, 5/23/31 Page 11
',.ICE ;HIT `R hL1R','I: l: Can 1 ask Dick a question, in your letter, are yoG referring that we do
riot hold any public hearings, is that the policy you 'rant, or adm uiistra-
tive hearings on any of these letters, is that. what you are saying to us?
Cause I agree with you if that is what you are saying.
COUNCiL:,iAN ALDRE'0:
I can't say that with respect to the first letter without ah somo sort of
legal interpretation by an attorney.
V10E I'MUR MAr{'!'1P!U:
1K 11, o.k., then I gu(rss I'm riot in total agreement with you, either we do
it all or we can't, in my opinion, as one fifth anyway, all three of these
things are basically the same type of situation, they should have been
thrown in the trash can or somebody should have come up and said something
and while I have the floor, I know it's late, I would like to take the
opportunity, seeing as how I'm in this frame of mine, to ask the City
Attorney if anybody objects, by my guest, to draw up an Ordinance that
would recind what we have on the books, concerning this code of ethics etc
this particular Ordinance as being referenced, and bring us in line with
the ;;tale Statutes.
:TTOH; E1' 6RA;v`i':
tJell, Mr. Martino, when you say bring us in line with the State Statutes,
you mean adopt the State Statutes and this Council still would hear any
complaints or refer the complaints as we now find, for example, election
vi,_•1_ations, we have election's commission to complaints, I think
the violations, ah we have an ethic's commission handles those complaints,
if the Council wishes to adopt the same provisions for, return to the
Council, here's the problem you are facinr„ under the State Code, they
have a period of time of confidentiality, all right, number one, they
®
have the prescribed form which Mr. Aldred refers to one in the ethics
i
section, the same wa:� with the State Election's Commission, they have a
period of confidentiality, this is only for one reason, this is no reflec-
tion on what is pending now be`ore the Council, the - _ee letters, this
keeps down the cranks, - n._.xendo and fooling around, ail right, either
there is probable cause or there Lsn't, in other words, you have to reach
a threshold of ;roof under, oath before it is made public unless the
person accused, asked that everything be made publiq, i dcn't thin!: the
Council with meeting in the Sunshine has the sac.,3 rower, so if you say
that you wanted everything returned to the Council, with the Dame State
provisions, ,'CU have two threshold's of proof, the sworn affidavit, and
the C�)Uncil would hav(_ to decide is '.}sere pro1jable caua , I can't
s,-Q a mcetinh outside the sundhine. but..
ICE MAIt-, ,-AR 11_:
rly su7pesticn is that iie adopt the Otate Statutes with the requirements
thai any causes for situations that deal with ethics be given to the
Tallahassee Election's Commission as provided for in the State Statutes
ri,l is not done mere at the local bodv.
C<0��',itEf HPAi]'Z':
Ur - thre is anything pertaining to ethics gees to the State Ethics
Commi ttee .
10E MAYO" '�Lki=NO:
That's correct.
LA.YOR KIEDiS:
Hill, the part that is prohibited by State Law as coercion, intimidation,
defamation of character, and things like that, what I think what Mike is
referring to obviously is the ordinary conduction of an election, which
th:, state code specifically permits any political entity, any political
candidate, but incumbent, from participating in an election so
long as he does not you know, intimidate, coerce or defame anybody that is
running; for office. In other words, he conducts himself in a normal
fashion, he can do out and ..... the house stops if he isn't violating
City CO;iaCL3 Workshop Meeting, 5/28/81
Page -12-
the noise ordinance.,l guess. 1s that what you are talkin(; about, [Michael
®
COUNCILMAN KISELEWSK1: I'd like to Net back to Dick's point, cause that is where we are. 1
agree with what you are saying;, in other words, unless the guy's willing
to make a statement and back it up, that guy, not somebody else talking
in his behalf, then I would think that we should pay any attention to it,
now we do however find ourselves do the middle of a predicament where
we've already scheduled a hearing, now, the question I would have in
that is have we not asked, I don't know whether we've asked all parties,
but have we noLasked Mr. Scarola rel;arding letters one and three to
produce ,lust what he's asking for by a certain date?
ATTORNEY BRANT:
The last I wrote,
COUNCILMAN KISELEWSKI: I never got your first one, I've got the last two, but
ATTORNEY BRANT:
I'm sorry, I thought I brought three...
C011NCIU110 KISELEWSKI: No one refers to yoar letters 7,ent iSay lyt';r, :.:here .-,carola...
ATTORNEY BRANT
I'm sorry, Sir, because I dashed out of };e�ro for th3? gaol m.c;tin�„ and 1
though my secretary had it...
KISEL6 :SKT :I` w. is my linder::tandin� that at teat tl _ dvic a 'UM o,' a nearing
date and asked h>me to produce tht� information,
f AT70i i,T" -Y '311,ANT:
No hearin"� date "Jac set at That tame, th,_1 quc:.Aion gas . .,,, directed by
the Council to require specifics.
�COIJNCIU AI' KISELEldSKI:By
-tain
a ce data.
AiTOR:IEY BRANT:
Tnat's what I was requested, that is correct, s tnen yo: see t%Er.Z,
reply to the letters -ince then, a subsequent lctcer went ut for *hwith
to produce specifics. I know the hour is late, and 1'd l:Y:c to .;et a
consensus of opinion, if you're going forward �,,it; ti-c ;; ntzrg i,ednesuay
niEht, then number one, what cutoff time are we gettin, into, I mean what
would the Council direct in other cords, if no specific3 are in, as
requested, then no hearing, ',could oe my recommendation, •.o%i nave to cut
it somewhere, I mean, we nl: to get off the center point.
COGi,:CIT—MAIN J,I3ELEWL:K1:
Well, I thought you had already e;tabiached that as either toduv or
tomorrow.
ATTORi :EY BRANT:
I said forthwith, o.k., ',:hick means immediately.
COUNCILi•]AN Y.TSELE:•3KI:Ya, but imirediatcly could he ashen....
A'T73,PJEy u1-,A,1!T:
It means immediately, I tlave hac no response, and my neat ;question Ls...
XixYOP EI'EDTS
Y"-'u've had no reshonso from whom?
ATTORi,EY DRANT:
Mr. Scarola, so the next question iti should T solicst him cr, the Council
take a position, now far should I go is what I'm really asking?
® MAYOR KIEDIS:
Did you tell him about Wednesday's meeting?
ATTORtJEY BRANT:
Yes sir.
Ci'.y Council Workshop Meeting, 5/28/61
Page -13-
vSYOR KIEDIS:
I'm in a little process of doing a little investigating this thing with
®
an attorney, and ah 1 can't finalize anything with him until Monday. TI•
only thing is I think that both letters, the three letters should be
treated the same as far as the anonymous persons are concerned. I
don't have any reservations about a letter of endorsement, I sent Mr.
Kiselewski a letter which complimented him on his abilities and no forte
and so on, and I felt he would be an excellent candidate for the City
Council, The signs, as far as I'm concerned, to mo I don't care, they
were in my yard, I didn't put them in there and personally if somebody
wants to put it in my yard, be it today or tomorrow, for the next year':
election. or the year after, they can put them in there and I don't feel
that's my responsibility. °o. those two allcedtions, you can do what
you want with, as Par as the third one's concerned, unlc .-su mine is
dropped, I don't feel Mr. Aldred's should b% dropped either. Because
they are exactly the same state at this moment, i don't care whether
Jack Scarola is representinc. somebody or John Jonec or the concerned
citizens are representing th'_mselw s.
COUNCIL MAN KISELEWSKI:
i•ir. Brant, Lo hrinf; tha.� thii:� t,, p head, iU there Some way that we can
T
publicly a. 4; th,' i11 inf'err it,jon ,_c rcquest,?d ty ., Aldred be here by
5:00 P.f1. tomorro-�: afternoon?
ATiLR'.EY BRA,iT:
Yes, sir, that's what I'm leading up to in all cases.
COU:OIL,'. =i1 ,:1SE -"KT:
All items that carve in anonymously that the necessary documentation
that I•'r. Aldred has referred to, could it also be here by `; o'clock
tomorrow afternoon, so those people can come forward with a sworn
®
affidavit whatever it said, this is a specific complaint, and Im re_dy
to back ,:hat I have to say, anu 1f they aren't here by 5 o'clock in the
afternoon; next Wednesday ni,ht, ue can all �,,, `ishin .
i hat 's where I'n Go'no.
l LJI
qr(, wE 60inr, to have jDlicitC:rs go to everybody's door Lo see th:;.t they
P
are notified.
COJI]CILI4AN EISELEWSKI:
',,.'ell, that's ghat I said, hoar can it be dine publicly?
COIJIJCfLG:OiiA ` i XO:J3OE:
;that _s your, position,
ATTORI.EY BRAjv7:
Odell, number one, let's take the not.... situation, letter number 2, the
completly anonymous letter, o.k.you set a deadline because I understand
what lie is saying, ok, is he to be prepared with his witnesses sitting
there in case %ti. X walks in the door, the so called authors of the
letter, I think no, I mean even my suggestion here, nobody should be
forced to come to any defensive measures at the last minute, o.k.,
I'm just using that as the first.. o.k., so a cut off time, letter
number three, I don't mean Lo leave you last ;`iayor, but thats a little
more difficult; letter number three, we've asl.ed for specifics, you
saw the ground letter, o.k., when you all set a hearing, o.k.fine,
now the hearing was set, he was so notified, so that some method of
notifying as to - .etter number three, Mr.Scarola's office, if he's not
in leave it with the competent person at his office, that's it, letter
®
number 1, the first hio issues, are specific, item number 3 within the
first letter is to the various telephone calls made as a shotgun,
no question about it. So I'm just using you as an example, in the
first letter, Mayor. In other words as far as the alleged telephone
calls, o.k., either he has witnesses, or he doesn't on that point.
The other two, with all do respect, you made several statements, yes
City Council Workshop Pleeting, 5/23/81
Page —14—
the signs were there and why, o.k., item number two within the
letter . there was something that appeared in the newspaper or it
®
didn't Item number three is the shotgun, I'm just trying to break
it out here and to get the Council to come to some decision, put up
or shut up by a deadline lay iL on the line, and as far as the
editorial. 1 mean, it was fine except one thing, you stand to face
your accusers normally in a criminal court of law, per say, unfort-
unately, it you did't arrange for something under your code as it now
sits, the s,&o editors with uhO greatest of respect, could come
back then why you didn't do it. But I mean that's strickly within the
realm of criminal law and what the constitution provides, nc,t an ad-
ministratir,o hearing, so you ignored the letters completely, o.k.,then
that same group of editors would come back and not according due
process, and not following out the code and that's for . . . so that's
either in twilit or between.
A'FIORN-Y RIC;CIARD GRO'NER:
Just one brief conment, directing to what tr. Kiselewski requested,
is there some jaav we could be sure that notices are provided?
COUNCIUMAN KISEIENSM :
'Chat's the only question I keep coming back to,
Al "IORNEY GRONER:
In the case of Scarola, you call him and tell him, either have it here
by 5 o'clokl, tomorrow, or else you're nor going to have a hearing, and
call it ... you're either here by 5 o'clock tomorrow with this
specific
COUI;ClL,1A1,,' KISELLWSKI:
I'm not worried about that one
41kITORL%T:Y
Aldred, that
GRONER:
As to the letter as about Dick obviously the person wrcLe
the letter had made notice difficult by not giving us a return address
and name therefore, you ao what you should be ',irg in aloL of
situations, post it in a public place, downstairs on the bulletin
boards, to concerned citizens, have your specifics here by 5 o'clock
Fridav, Play 29th, or there will be no hearing and the charges will be
dismissed."
COL'NC11111 v KISEL5gSKI:
The specifics about what they should have.
ATTORNEY GRONER:
kho is going to testify, and who is going to be here and what are, you
can pass a motion right now, this is a Public Meeting, you post a
notice on the bulletin board.
COUNCIL,M KISELD%SKT:
No, we can't do that right now, this is a Workshop Meeting.
MUfd1'LY GRONER:
'That's the way you can post notices to that individual, and satisfy
typical duc process.
MAYOR KIEIiTS:
We can publish Lt in the newspaper,
ATIOIINa GRONER:
That could be accomplished if the reporters could be kind enough to run
this as part of their story.
�ATUORNEY BRMF :
Gle post everything else on the bulletin boards,
VICE,;1AYOR "ARTINO:
Ya, Bill, as far as I'm concerned, May 25th you wrote a letter to
Scarola's office and you advised them of the date, time and certain
and place of the hearing, you asked for information to be given
to us forthwith, which means
City Council Workshop Meeting, 5/28/81 Page -15-
A71O1NEY BRA; T:
lbat's right, he's a lawyer, and forthwith means inmediately, within
®
24 hours.
VICE MAYOR 'k1RTIN0:
Even I know that, o.k., we Haven't got it, so as far as I'm concerned
we don't have to contact him again, he's been officiall notified.
A17tRNEY BI�AN1':
i%4ay 1 fluke two reca,nendations, sir? I'll be brief, number one,
as to the anonymous letter, have the City Clerk under the direction
of the hhinager, post it on every bulletin board throughout the City,
set the time and deadline, that's the only method, we cannot get a
publication in the newspaper, nobody steps forward, fine, its the best
approach of due process. Point two, as far as Mr. Scarola, I don't
have a courrier service, but I would like to cover all points so that
there is no question what so ever, and have it delivered. Ilien
there would be no question on it,
COUNCIL. M KISELEZiSKI:
I would not through a phone call, hand delivered to his office.
ATTOEN''EY BRANI:
'IZlat's why I considered it to be due process to shorten this wit,
forthwith should have been by 5 o'clock today.
?t\YOR KIEDIS:
Four days passed, this is now the 29th.
COUNCILMAN,' KISELWSKI:
Richard, does this do what you'd like to do?
C XJNCILti1AN1 ALDRED:
It certainly does, because then I ]mow whether or not I have to
bring in mY witnesses.
MAYOR KIEDIS:
What witnesses were you going to bring in, Dick?
COUCC11116N U.DRED:
Witnesses. I don't have to answer any questic -. .
COUN'CI1`Ml KISE12WSKI:
Well do we have to make a general agreement on this?
ATTOILV Y BRANI:
l•kiat we need is to the Manager to have direction for me to have
direction, on what you wish done.
CaJNCIU1A:: KISEI.LZdSKI:
We rot an option to put the thing to bed tomorrow.
NFFORNiN BRVI':
Do we have that direction, 11r. ChiirnLln?
MAYOR KIEDIS:
lJhat direction are you looking for?
A7I70REEY BRA'\T:
In other words as far as the anonymour letter posted on the bulletin
boards throughout the City tomorrow by 5 o'clock, as far as the first
and third letter, specific conic forward by 5 o'clock.
MAYOR KIEDIS:
You are ging them another, why don't you file that on the bulletin
boards too.
A'I" UINEY BRANT:
that's up to you.
:1r1Y0R KIEDIS:
Well, I'm just saying you've already given, he's already ha-1 four da-
to respond,
ATTOOTEV BhAfT:
If we had the name and address, in case of the anonymous letter
we do not, so that's 0,77.
LI1AYOR KIEDIS:
Well how far do you pursue somebody who has the name and address, are
City Council Workshop Meeting, 5/28/81
Page -16-
you obligated to keep callin� him and writing him letters until he
. decides that, well I guess 111 respond and produce those people;
I'm just saying iy lookd likr the balance is all in that direction.
I don't really know what direction to give you in this thing,here,
so, it's been bounced back and forth about ten times now, we've
changed our minds about two or three times, we've delayed it,
SOMEONE IN THE AUDIENCE: 1 dust have one recommendation, with dealing with letter 2,
specified that they should have all their information here by 5 P.M.
tomorraa, if you are going to post it tomorrow, this certainly
doesn't give these other concerned citizens much time to get their
material together, and it might be more reasonable to give them a
little later date, 10 A.M. Monday, for instance.
VICE MAYOR MARTINO: I think they've had enough time.
COUNCIIIIAN KISELIsISKI: I see no difference, what's the difference? All they have come
through with the formal charge , sworn affidavit that I charge mr.
X,Y,Z or Miss X.Y,Z with this offense and I will be there next-...
with my information, and that's all they have to do, correct, .Mr.
Brant?
AIIORNEY BRWT : I didn't particularly provide it with a ._i affidavit, but I
think we provide for specifics over his signature, is what I think
you are looking for."
COL'NCIL`MAN KISELZE SKI: Uell Mould it be tou much to ask for that, the sworn affidavit?
®ATTORNEY BRAM17: The way our code is -eared, in my opinion, yes.
COUNCII1!LN KIS; -LEIISKI: Mr. Aldred should be happy with an unsworn statement.
COUINUUTAN rU.DRED: Sure, as long as I have a signature.
COUNCILI,>A<\' KISELEI�SKI: That would also have to be in the case of the first and third
letter, then too, signature of the accuser, not the attorney for
the accuser.
VICE: -MAYOR 'LCTINO: All three of the letters are very similar, I don't care whose names
are dorm at the bottom.
COUNCIIIAN KISELEWSKI: Well that's what 'Mr. Aldreds' looking for, right, is the accuser,
that is what 'Mr. Kiedis is looking for is the accuser, myself
Mr. Martino, Mrs. 'Monroe, the accuser, so the accuser has to document
what he is accusing, not his attorney. Is that too much to ask,
Mr. Brant?
AITORIv1E;Y BRANIf: No sir, just tell me what you want.
COUNCII.,IAN KISE;LLNSKI: U.K.
ATTORNEY BRANT: The affidavit, I rhink in our code has..
0 COMCIL`1AN KISELLMSKI: O.K., no affidavit, but a statement from the actual accuser.
ATTORNEY BRANTI: The name of his client, that's what you.—,that's fine, you adopted
one policy, now you are undoing the policy, just tell me what you
want.
VICE MAYOR ';AIZLINO: Mr. Scarola is to identify his concerned citizens, his signature with
evidence to me is not enough.
City Council Workshop
Meeting, 5/28/81 Page - 17-
MAYOR KIEEDIS:
He's had two months to identify..
WICE MAYOR MARTINV:
Put up or shut- up.
COUNCILWOMAN IONROE:
The direction that Mr. Brant, if we agree that we would like to have
hun to hand deliver one, someone had deliver one, and bulletin
board on the other, then the only thing that we are in question over
is what we are requesting legally the signature of the accuser, does
that hold water legally, so that we can't be accused of side
stepping it malfeasance, or whatever, does that hold up?
ATIORNIEY BMW:
No, not in my opinion, the court should rule on it. I gave you my
o�i.nion o.k. what I believe the cose dais, that's what we have
crrcut judges [or now, so the Council takes the hard line position
policy -wise and this is what's been searched for here in my
memorandums proposed procedures, everything, now the Council means
to bring it to the bottom line, and I .. ten, twelve policy de-
cisions that have to be made, if this one of them, then you so state
and then you ratify that at a formal meeting o.k., then I will lay
it right out in the letter, either he produces that I would suggest,
either that is done by the deadline to be established, and then that's
it, in my opinion, let's take an action thereon, then the ball is in
his park, it's also in the park of the ::,signed letter.
COUNCILWOUMAi'I MONROE:
But the signature of the accuser will hold up, your suggestion to us
is that from your best legal information that is o.k. for us to
do, to require as a matter of policy.
COUNCILV\N KISEIZ[ISKI:
For the sake of continuity there should only be one letter, one
letter posted, a copy of that letter posted here and a copy of that
letter delivered to ,fr. Scarola, because the policy should be the
same, the policv - hould be in order to have a hearing we need the
name of the accuser, and the specific offense that and the name of
the Councilman that the specific offense has been levied at, correct?
iRS. KISELEZ4SKI:
I'm going to get my two cents in, if you have already sent the
letter to Mr. Scarola, isn't that letter enough for posting of one
letter downstairs?
VICE f +WNR MAiMNO:
I agree with your wife.
ATTORNEY BRAI\T:
You are putting the deadline as far as Mr. Scarola is concerned, you
tell him also now he's going to produce the name of his clients.
COUNCILIAN KISELhl;SKI:
And that's also the case of the anon }mums letter.
A7170I0;E•7' BRAN7:
O.K., you are equating the two now, you change the policy, I see
you can ratify it at a fonial meeting, and take it from there.
COUNCILMA,'N ALDREU:
Well I requested a decision on this matter by 5 o'clock tomorrow,
1 am willing to indeference to the suggestion by the young lady,
put it off until 10 A.M., Pbnday, but that's the latest that I
will wait.
®
MAYOR KIEDIS:
What if we make you wait until 5 o'clock, Monday, you'll still
wait until 5 o'clock Monday.
COL:ICIU�LN KISELEWSKI:
You know what you're doing now John, I'm sorry, but now you take the
other side of this thing, the throwing of rocks at the five of us
that had weeks to sit and analyze, and we don't really know what they
City Council Workshop Meeting, 5/28/81 Page -18-
are going to throw at us, and I'm saying, right now, give us
three days if they are gonna throw rocks, know where to catch
the rock.
MAYOR KIEDIS: Five o'clock Friday?
AITORNEY GRONER: If you wait until five o'clock Monday to find out, then all you
got is Tuesday.
C MCIIIIINN KISELBWSKI: Since we are of an opinion, it would be my opinion that we would
direct Plr. Brant to publish one letter that would be applicable,
it would be a policy statement indicating that anyone wishing to
present an offense at Wedncsday's hearing, that the accuser and
the specific offense be recorded at Town Hall no later or City
Hall no later than 5 P.M. on 'May the 29th.
VICE MAYOR MARTINO: Mr. Scarola's signature is not going to stand as an accuser with me.
CGUNCIJIMA KISELEWSKI: Well yes it can, John, if he is going to be the accusers then
he's gonna accept the
VICE MAYOR MARETNO: No he's already in our recors with the City as far as I'm concerned
as being an Arent for the accusers.
COUNCILMAN KISEI Z,'SKI: That's the wav 1 would like to see Mr. Brant directed, how would
You like to see Mr. Brant directed?
C01M ILWOMAN P40NROE: That sounds good.
0 MAYOR K=IS
U
We're getting into an awful tizzy about this thing after two months,
and
VICE MAYOR MARTINIC: That's fine, as long as we all understand what we're supposed to
get. Is it clear, `1r. City Attorney?
MAYOR KILDI5: Absolutely clear.
DJOUEi!t1EUT: There bein., no further business, the meeting adjourned at 1:00 A.M.