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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Council 032273WORKSHOP MEETING CITY OF PALM BEACH GARDL-NS MARCH 22, 1973 The Workshop Meeting of the City Council was called to order by Mayor Wiley at 8 :00 P.M. in the Assembly Room, 10500 N. Military Trail, Palm Beach Gardens, and opened with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. ROLL CALL: Roll was called by the City Clerk and present were: Councilman Dunbar, Councilman DeLonga, Councilman Martino, Vice Mayor Kiedis and Mayor Wiley. Attorney William Brant was also present. MINUTES: The minutes of the Regular Meeting of March 159 19739 as modified, were unanimously approved by the Council. ANNOUNCEMENTS: Mayor Wiley made the following announcements: 1. A Public Hearing by the City Council will be held Thursday, April. S.#4973 to discuss the Sign Ordinance. 2. A Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting will be held Tuesday, March 27, 1973. 3. A Beautification and Envixo nmental Committee Meeting will be held Wednesday, Marbh 28, 1973. 4. The Youth Athletic Association Umpire Clinic will be held Friday, March 23, 1973. p REPORTS: Mayor Wiley reported that 50 applications for City Manager have been CITY NS: ITY MANAGER.* received to date. The Council unanimously agreed to March 30th as I the final-date for receiving applications. AREA PLANNING Mayor Wiley reported he and Vice Mayor Kiedis had attended the Area BOARD: Planning Board Meeting held this date. The Board tabled for 60 days any action on a request for approval from the Palm Beach County Utilities of a 2�i million gallon sewage treatment plant to be located in Section 33, West of the turnpike and north of PGA Blvd. The Area Planning Board objected to the site because of its proximity to the Workshop Meetings March 22, 1973 Page 2 C -I8 Canal, not in conformance with the Long Range Plan and the elevation differential is such that there would not be any natural percolation to reach the ground water table, They proposed alternate sites in Sec. 36, 1 or 2 which are areas east of the Turn- pike with Section 2 their prime selection. County commissioner Culpepper proposed a joint venture with Mr. MacArthur and will confer with him. Mayor Wiley spoke on behalf of the City that they will stand behind any efforts toward an expedient solution. COMMISSIONER CULPEPPER: FIRE n T .0 TA T r'T.0 A lA RESURFACING: Acting City Manager reported the following: 1. The resurfacing of certain streets in the City will be started in a week. 2. Sears, Inc. will start construction on the fencing of the new tennis courts after the material is received next week. 3. The Public Works Department schedule for next week will include preparing the soil and relocating the animal control holding area, completion of the north field at Howell Watkins, placing the marl on the soft ball fields at the Elementary School which Commissioner Culpepper assisted in obtaining for the project. Mr. Culpepper will attend the Council meeting on April 12, 1973 to report on his meeting with Mr. MacArthur regarding the proposed sewage treatment plant. and Building Official are Vice Mayor Kiedis reported the Fire Chief/ obtaining material from the surrounding municipalities regarding fire districts which will be given to Attorney Brant to prepare a draft for the Councilld consideration. Councilman Martino acknowledged receipt of a letter from Senator Phil Lewis in answer to his letter regarding the resurfacing of AlA which will be started by the end of the year. PETITIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS: Mayor Wiley acknowledged receipt of communications from: Workshop Meeting, March 22, 1973 Page 3 MRS. BILLIE 1. Mrs. Billie Miller - Attorney Brant was instructed by the Council MILLER: to prepare a resolution allowing Mrs. Billie Miller permission, on v a temporary basis, to place a house trailer on her property. INSURANCE 2. Insurance Services Office - Attorney Brant was directed to SERViCES OFFICE: prepare a draft of a memo to the Utility Company regarding the Cities position regarding fire defenses. NANCY LAURIE: 3. Nancy Laurie - In answer to Nancy Laurids suggestion that a separate Environmental Committee be established, the Council suggested the present nine member Beautification and Environmental Committee be divided into sub groups and Councilman Martino will relate this information to the B & E Committee for their comments. FRANK BRUTT: 4. Copy of a letter addressed to Frank Brutt from Nilo Priede, Chief Water Quality Planning, Environmental Protection Agency, setting forth meeting dates to discuss the Interim Water Quality Management Plan. ..� MAYOR PRIVETT: 5. Mayor H. Mallory Privett, Jr., North Palm Beach enclosing a Resolution endorsing the purchase of oceanfront property. FRANK 6. Frank Groschelle, Chairman, Southeastern Federal Regional Council GROSCHELLE: advising of a seminar in Tallahassee on March 27, 1973 regarding Revenue Sharing. AREA PLANNING 7. Copy of the agenda of the Area Planning Board Meeting, March 22, 130ARD N=NG: 1973. The Council instructed Attorney Brant to prepare a resolution clarifying the Council's stand on the desirability of a State Park on Peanut island. FLORIDA PUBLIC S. Florida Public Service Commission advising of a hearing on May 23, SERVICE OMMISSION: 1973 regarding an increase in telephone rates. PLANNING & 9. Planning and Zoning Commission - Attorney Brant was directed to ZONING BD: prepare an Ordinance to annex property owned by Lost Tree Corp. for the agenda of April 5, 1973, and a Public Hearing is scheduled for April 199 1973. i Workshop Meeting, March 22, 1973 Page 4 MRS.NANCY 10. Literature from Mrs. Nancy Taylor including TOP that have been TAYLOR: issued in Broward County will be placed in the information folder. JOHN HARBIN: 11. John Harbin, Plant Engineer#g, RCA thanking the Fire Department for their prompt response to a recent fire in the wooded area near RCA. ITEMS BY THE ACTING CITY MANAGER: CONDITION OF 1. Acting City Manager James DeLonga presented the Council with a OPERATING ACCOUNTS: summary of the condition of the operating accounts showing how the money is being spent, and a list of proposed expenditures from the Federal Revenue Sharing Trust Fund. FLORIDA 2. Acting City Manager presented a request from Woody Dukes, Recreation RECREATION STATE CONFERENCE: Virector to sponsor the Florida Recreation State Conference in May, 1. 1974 together with Riviera Beach. Mr. Dukes was instructed to determine the cost to the City and report at the meeting on April 5th. ACCESSORY 3. The Council unanimously agreed to a request from the Acting City Manager to investigate a used small accessory 3 wheel vehicle to be used by the Recreation Maintenance man at a cost of $850.009 and for the Recreation Director and the Vehicular Maintenance Director to go to Ft. Lauderdale to look at this Westcoaster since a vehicle of this type is not available in this area. ITEMS BY THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL: MARCH 29 By unanimous decision the Council cancelled the meeting of March 29, MEETING CANCELLED: 973 inasmuch as it is the fifth Thursday in the month. COUNCILMAN Councilman Martino recommended that Charlie Jancyck, the Recreation MARTINO: Maintenance man, be named the "Employee of the Month" and his name EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH: will be given to the Merit System Board for their evaluation and recommendation. FIRE STATION Councilman Martino read a report he had made as a result of an i nspection he and Vice Mayor Kiedis had made of the fare station facilities indicating there was a general maintenance problem. He suggested a determination should be made of which organizations using Workshop Meeting, March 22, 1973 COUNCILMAN DUNBAR : TENNIS COURTS: EVALUATION SHEETS., RESOLUTIONS: RESOLUTION ,4 - Page 5 the :facility axe diligent and which are not. Councilman DeLonga will discuss the problem with the firemen at their next meeting prior to the Council taking any action. Councilman Dunbar inquired about the status of the new tennis courts and Acting City Manager James DeLonga reported Mr. Feise fully intends to correct the situation by resurfacing the courts and rolling them. The Council agreed the Department head evaluation sheets prepared by each Council member should be submitted to the Mayor by April 301973. Resolution #14, 1973 accepting the dedication of street - right -of ways and improvements in Tanglewood,, and tabled by the Council at their meeting of March 18, 1973, was discussed. It was the opinion of the Council that the City should not maintain the private parking areas on the City owned right. -of -ways. Mr. Pappal.ardo,, owner of the p roject0 was of the opinion that the City had granted the use of the right -of -ways for parking. The Council,, by unanimous vote., authorized Attorney Brant to meet with Mr. Pappalardo and his attorney for an interpretation of the resolution and that the resolution remain tabled until a response is received from Mr. Brant. ORDINANCE #5: Ordinance #5, 1973 the Sign Ordinance was workshopped by the Council. Mayor Wiley stated: "Ordinance #5,, was read on first reading March 15, 1973 and each one of us indicated at that time that we had serious reservations regarding portions of this ordinance but generally felt the principle that it extends,, that a lot of the things that are in here we are serious about and as such carried it to that stage. We do have a series of photographs here of some of the major signs Located in our community taken by our B & E Committee,, and on the back they do have dimensional, data which we have been using for reference. Generally speaking every sign that I have pictures of would be in violation of this proposed ordinance, which quite a few of us expressed that we could not go along with. The question is now, Workshop Meeting, March 22, 1973 Page 5 how do you write this ordinance such as to allow some of the things like the signs that we have indicated would be acceptable to us - 1--� the First National Bank of PBG, the hospital signs, the Holiday Inn Sign on the wall. We have no disagreement with that at all and in a case like that suggested something along the lines of an area rule of ratio of physical size of the sign and the structure that it is located on. These are some of the comments that each pwticular councilman have expressed. We are trying not to discourage in anyway whatsoever the business community, not trying to achieve the ultimate in no signs such as Palm Beach has, but we are trying to leave US #11 Northlake Blvd. in Lake Park and North Palm Beach as an example of what we do not want. We are trying to put together something that is very difficult to do, we have been dragging along intentionally to find out what the City of West Palm Beach is going to do, but haven't received a draft yet." The following are comments and recommendations made by businessmen in the area regarding the proposed Sign Ordinance. HOWARD FERRIN: "In reference to ground signs .. you almost have to have a ground sign. The West Palm Beach Code regulates the size of the ground sign by the amount of front footage that they have. As far as wall signs are concerned, it controls the amount of wall area that a sign owner can install by the amount of wall area. As an example, if a small business had an area something like a building frontage of about 10 Meet high by 50 feet long which would be 500 sq.ft. of frontage on his building, he could use about 10q of that area. From that point up it goes on a curve graph, that a building as large, I am sure you are all familiar with Jordan marsh, that has thousands of square foot of wall area, they could possibly only use 3 or 4% of the whole wall. So it is all based upon the impact, the visual impact, of the viewing r Workshop Meeting, March 22, 1973 Page 7 public and when we are talking about visual pollution„ and I think that is what we ought to be concerned about, if we don't want the gaudy signs, we don't want signs that are one on top of the other, because they don't do any good, but if they are regulated, by the size of your property, by the size of your building, and the distance apart of ground signs, then the visual impact of that sign is not objectionable. That is what my concern is, that we control the visual impact of the advertising area. And the present ordinance that you are now proposing is identical to what you proposed almost a year ago COUNCILMAN and we have not accomplished anything in that year."" One of my major DE LONGA : areas of concern with our sign ordinance is the area ratio. For example, I had the building official take photographs of the Holiday Inn and also the prints of the sign area plus the surface area of that wall that it is located on. My personal feeling is that I do not find this particular type of advertising on that particular building unpleasant to me from a visual pollution stand point - in fact I think that building could probably utilize a bigger sign that what they have. The other signs on that property I certainly don't care for. Just for the Council's edification, the sign area is 204 sq.ft. - it would be like a 16 to 1 ratio. If you take the upper portion it is like 5 to 1. In the West Palm Beach ordinance there is some slidling scale based on surface area - I would be very interested in seeing it." MR. FERRIN: "One other point that might be of interest to you is you do mention casually in your code .. where you restrict a business where they have more than one street front. The City of West Palm Beach proposed code goes far greater than that. We control the area on its side street frontage, on the building that might be adjacent to a side street frontage and we also take into consideration the area that abuts a residential area. In other words, basically a side street frontage is allowed 50% of what is allowed on the main street frontage r Workshop Meeting, March 22, 1973 Page 8 and if it abuts a residential area then it is cut down to 25% so there is consideration to the whole community, not just the business c ommunity, but also the residential. community. And that is why I think the Code we have worked on for 20 months in the City of West Palm Beach is a comprehensive code and with very minor changes would work very well in Palm Beach Gardens: COUNCILMAN " Could you draw a distinction between a ground sign and a pole signt+ MARTINO : MR. FERRIN: 1frhey are the same. Basically three different definitions of a ground sign. One is a ground sign, a pole sign and a free standing sign. The modern nomenclature is a free standing sign, which means that it is supported entirely from the ground. In the West Palm Beach proposal we have five to six pages of definitions and very specific and what we do when we talk about a pole sign is refer to free standing - all the definitions are the same. COUNCILMAN Councilman Martino showed pictures of signs at the bank, the hospital MAR_ TINO: and Schraffts in Palm Beach. M€2. FERRIN: ++The bank sign, the hospital sign and the sign at Schraffts in Palm Beach I would call pole signs. They are basically all the same - all free standing signs or ground signs.,, COUNCILMAN "l: would like to know if _ first of all we have legislatived out MARTINO: pole signs, we don't like the pollution that we see. I have no particular objection to signs similiar to the bank sign, what I am asking is could we get definitions that would include signs of that variety and exclude anything that is not around a ground sign." MR. FERRIN: }}It is a difficult thing to do - basically they are all the same thing, they are all free standing signs. There is one thing you could almost classify, and we have separate in the West Palm Beach Code,, is the .� small Poinciana Plaza Schrafft Sign and the Palm Beach Gardens hospital, extremely small signs. What we have done with small signs like this i Workshop Meeting, March 220 1973 Page 9 which might have an entrance or exit on them, we classify those as directional signs. Because they are primilarly for giving vehicular directions. COUNCILMAN ,So you are saying, it would be pretty hard to draw a distinction between ground signs, pole signs and free standing signs.' MR. FERRIN: "I would say they were all the same:" MAYOR WILEY: "Do you have a provision in there for any kind of review board or appearance board ?" MR. FERRIN: " No sir it does not - if you are referring to an architectural review board or community appearance board - it does not. However the Committee has discussed this at quite some length and the Committee has not taken a definite stand but I do believe it will be the Committee's recommendation to the City Commission that they consider an architectural or a community appearance board for review of any proposed building or sign. '- VICE MAYOR KIEDIS: "What do you have in the West palm Beach ordinance about amortization or any payment for signs that have to be removed after a given time.'} MR. FERRIN: 'r There is no provision for payment, however there is a provision for removal of non - conforming signs on a value basis. It is on another scales a direct scale that would allow signs that are non - conforming that would be up to $600 they would have to be removed in 180 days. Signs of $ 15,000 value or more would have 5 years to be removed. Again this is only a majority of the Committee's report and it would be up to the Commission as to whether they will accept them or not.rr COUNCILMAN rr Have you ever been to Williamburg - there are not too many signs therep DE LONGA : MR. FERRIN: " Yess it is beautiful - they have completely built it on a total, concept of the olden days and to have some large illuminated sign there would be out of place. But we have a business community here where we have some small commercial areas that should be regulated in a certain way Workshop Meeting, March 22, 1973 Page 10 and we have some larger commercial areas. As an example in the West Palm Beach Code we have special provisions for signs that are within 1000 feet of an Interchange of 1.-95. These should have a special provision because the service areas that are at an interchange of an interstate highway should have high rise signs so that the people who are traveling those roads can get from the inside lane to the outside lane and exit at a proper time so it would not cause a traffic hazard. COUNCILMAN f# Wouldn't it be better if the sign was posted on the highway saying MART INO : 3 miles service area? it MR. FERRIN: "No I would not agree with that. You are then getting into governmental control of private enterprises. We are talking about North Lake Blvd. and 1-.95 _ you have service stations there that have to service the public on I-.95 and they have to let the public Rnow that they are approaching that intersection. And to get to the inside lane if they are traveling 70 miles an hour and to get from the inside lane to the outside lane so they can exit in proper time so they won't cause a traffic hazard. 11 VICE MAYOR KIEDIS V What sort of restrictions do you place on service stataons. Most of them have identifying signs - big ones, generally 4 or 5.' MR. FERRIN: IrThey would not be allowed this. Again it would be according to the frontage foot the same as any other commercial, area. And the way the code is written there has to be a certain distance between free standing signs so that one isn't jammed up against another." C0UNCIUTAN j You mentioned front foot .- what about surface areas of building;.=# DE LONGA : MR. FERRIN: "Surface areas of the building - this is figured on an entirely different graph.$, MR.PAPPALARDO: "I would like to address myself to one item in the proposal because I really don't think that everyone has grasped what might happen. I would like to refer to Tanglewood Plaza_ basically what you have is a building; the frontage on this building is 3751 - your proposed ordinance in your Workshop Meeting, March 22, 1973 Page 11 commercial district has a formula which is a paragraph long stating how you can have signs. We have 20 businesses on the ground floor a nd in the proposed ordinance you allow 20 sq.ft. for each ground tenant that has a business so in theory what you are saying is you would permit 20 signs on this building in front of each persons place of business. We put a pole sign out there and told the tenants you can't have individual signs. We attempted to try and make a plaza blend in with the residential area and we put up a pole sign. In the proposed ordinance you are going to say to me take the pole sign down. In my opinion the one pole sign looks better than 400 sq.ft. of sign on that plaza. So what I have done is basically drawn up a little addendum to that commercial district. I would like you to consider to allow pole signs or the other signs in relationship to the size of the building, the frontage involved etc. and to go one step further I think this City would really be taking a great step in tabling this Ordinance until you have had the benefit of two years study of a group of people who have fully dedicated themselves to public community work at no pay and perhaps use part of the West Palm Beach ordinance because I think we need a sign ordinance to prohibit what is happening on U.S.1 in North Palm Beachll COUNCILMAN "I think the advertising space on your sign is too small _ you can't see DE LONGA: it when you go by. I really don't think it is performing its function. I definitely don't like the Abbey Road Sign or the meat marker sign -. they are pole signs _ I wash they werentt there. MR.PAPPALARDO: "If you look at my proposed language I am saying that you have a certain frontage you permit one pole sign or you permit what you are proposing in your ordinance - but give us a choice. But if I have to go and tear that sign down three years from now as you are proposing I am going to have to relent to keep my tenants - I am going to have to let them put up 400 sq.ft. of sign and I think that is really not the intent of your ordinance." Workshop Meeting, March 22, 1973 Page 12 VICE MAYOR KIEDIS: "There is confusion here _ a shopping plaza like you have is only allowed one sign according to our ordinance. A 12 sq.ft. sign and not more than one sign to be placed on this property. The height of the sign is not to exceed 42.1+ TERRY GALIAGHER: "If you say a 4' sign is all we would need unless you are a midget I don't know how you could see it. How would you know there was a beauty shop in that area unless you drive by and happen to see it." VICE MAYOR KIEDIS : "I think in a neighborhood shopping center generally your business comes from referral." MRS.GALLAGHER: "I beg to differ. I happen to be in a shopping center where I get the people who are tourist who are visiting friends or staying at the Holiday Inn. I want business and I encourage business and I am not going to get any business if nobody knows I'm there and if you take my sign down nobody is going to know I am there. I strongly suggest that you revise this Ordinance before you lose all your business peoplLy. ARTHUR FROG,EL:'The company I represent took over the Holiday Inn. The only point I would like to make and bring in the attorneys opinion. I conferred with several attorneys and they seem to be of the opinion that signs that are existing today could not be legally phased out in the three years as required by this ordinance. It would seem to me if this is true, it would require the opinion of the City Attorney, it would be u nfair to require citizens or business establishments in this community to fight the City, which none of us wants to do both from a moral and economical, standpoint. If the City Attorney agrees with this opinion.. I would suggest that it be left out of the ordi,nancer ATTORNEY $RANT:iiit was in my opinion. There is case ,law providing from 2 years to 6 years as Ear as phasing out of nonconforming signs. I have recommended to the Council if they adopt this method three years would be legally sufficient." MAYOR WILEY: 't It was our philosophy in terms of how we selected the three year phase i 1\ Workshop Meetings March 22, 1973 Page 13 out,, we felt that $15,000 or higher signs,, perhaps the Holiday Inn Sign falls in that category, or Terry's sign that cost less than $500. both of those signs probably have the same proportionate value to your businesses and as such, we need them in terms of time to conform, and we felt allowing you to have a sign just because you spent more money on its this would bring you proportionally more return to your larger business. We tried to equate this and this is how we decided,during prior discussions,to say that we would allow one time period independent of value. But I personally hope to look into the West Palm Beach Ordinance quite heavily before I go into any more serious considerationit ARTHUR FROGEL:s-t I am being selfish in that I am not looking for a 3 - 5 year delay but for an indefinite delay. I think our business is very much effected by our sign, the free standing sign. And if it were removed I think our business would be very seriously jeopari.xed. We are serving an area that is an interstate interchange and I believe there are exceptions to every rule and I think this should be one of them.', MR.PAPPALARDor I was involved in building the Holiday Inn Sign and there is going to be a 251 overpass there and the sign was made that big in order to allow the people to see that there is a Holiday Inn at the next interchange and give them sufficient time to get over in the proper lane. You have to treat it like West Palm Beach doeslf DAN SHEFFIELD: From First National Bank of Palm Beach Gardens - I hope we can keep our sign. I agree with Mr. Ferrin and Mr. Pappalardo to look over the West Palm Beach ordinance. We tried to put up a nice sigh that would be an asset to the Community and we wouldn't want to lose that sign. it ANDY LAUDER: = Property manager for Mr. Pappalardo. it As a property manager I have pride in Tanglewood and I am proud of that sign. The issue here as far as I am concerned - a Sign Ordinance - yes but with good common Workshop Meeting, March 22, 1973 Page 14 sense. Not an issue that says your sign is too big, too small - you have to have guidelines. This I agree with." COUNCILMAN_ "The topography of the surrounding area should be taken into DE LONGA : consideration - the people who own business property adjacent to some of these topographical areas where you won't be able to see signs. For example - AlA and the railroad tracks- there are going to be a certain amount of businesses adjacent to the railroad tracks that if business properties along that area have to adhere to our sign ordinance that the advertising would not be seen from AIA. So that is something else the Council should consider. Not only just the rail- road tracks but there may be other areas of the City where the topography won't permit that a business advertisement could be seen." MAYOR WILEY:ir I noticed going to St. Marks Church that this particular sign is II' tall and 4" wide which is Palm Beach Gardens Hospital sign - you cannot see that sign until you are approximately 400 or 500 feet from it- the reason being the elevation: of Burns Road is so low relative to the field that your vision is blocked by the grass, the ground - that you don't know that sign is there - you can't see it. No matter what it is relative to its own base or property, the surrounding area has to be taken into consideration." COUNCILMAN rr I think it is going to be kind of hard to legislate into an ordinance MARTI O: topographical features that happen to exist in an area.,, ATTORNEY BRANT: ti This is where previously the Council was considering a clause to arrange for granting variances and I recommended if you seriously get into that field you have to set up standards - you just can't say the Council will have the discretion. Using topography for a second - if the Council wants to explore that - the Council then should consider the maximum size - the size of the sign or percentage increase �J in area over what is permitted in the code because of the surrounding topography." Workshop Meeting, March 22, 1973 ORDINANCE #6: ORDINANCE #8: Page 15 A Public Hearing will be held on Ordinance #5, the Sign Ordinance on Thursday, April 5, 1973. Ordinance #6, providing for mandatory retirement of all City employees will be read on second reading on April 5, 1973. Ordinance #8, amending Ordinance #18, 1972 the Budget Ordinance will be placed on second reading on April 5, 1973. By unanimous decision, the Council rescheduled the organizational meeting from April 2, 1973 to the Regular Meeting on April 59 1973. ADJOURNMENT: No further business, the meeting adjourned at 10 :50 P.M. %(i��0 _ k�" n 9-' " - MftYOR WALTER W I LEY [ k kl- A'-,a P- MAYOR KIEDIS dtc'�c qto-- Alice Jean rslake i e , City Clerk COVNC ILb JAMES, -fly - LONGWJ COUNCILMAN ^DON DUNBAR 1 COUNCILMAN MICHAEL MARTINO