HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Council 080102 WorkshopCITY OF PALM BEACH GARDENS
CITY COUNCIL
WORKSHOP MEETING
August 1, 2002
The August 1, 2002 Workshop Meeting of the City Council of the City of Palm Beach
Gardens, Florida, was called to order at 5:30 P.M. in the Council Chambers of the Municipal
Complex located at 10500 North Military Trail, Palm Beach Gardens, Florida.
ROLL CALL: The City Clerk called the roll and the following elected officials were found
to be in attendance: Mayor Jablin, Vice Mayor Sabatello, Councilmember Clark,
Councilmember Russo, and Councilmember Delgado.
ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION:
Christ Fellowship PUD Amendment, North and South Campus — Neighborhood coalition
members introduced themselves. Attorney Alan Ciklin, representing Christ Fellowship,
explained that the church was required to add supplemental parking as a condition of
approval, and an additional 500+ spaces were proposed to be added right away. A
conceptual plan was presented showing additional proposed future buildings with the
required setbacks and additional ingress /egress. Staff advised the 20 acres would have to be
rezoned to add the supplemental parking. Mr. Ciklin indicated only the 10 -acre parcel would
need to be rezoned to add supplemental parking, which the church understood was needed in
order to get approval for 2,400 seats. Discussion ensued. Mr. Ciklin clarified that the
church was seeking 1,750 movable seats to accommodate those people who now had to
stand. Neighborhood coalition members objected to intensity of use in a residential
neighborhood. Mayor Jablin indicated the concern was that future plans were too intense.
Councilmember Russo indicated even if the property were rezoned the church could not
obtain a building permit to add the parking because it was over the minimum size that could
be developed without going through the PUD process, and staff clarified that the minimum
size was one acre. Mr. Ciklin explained that the moveable seats would be single chairs.
Growth Management Director Charles Wu indicated the applicant would need to provide
enforcement. Staff reported the Fire code allowed a maximum of 2,284 but under City code
2,640 persons were allowed to be sitting and standing. Councilmember Russo noted the code
needed to be changed because the City Council had believed they approved 1,750. Staff
explained that traffic concurrency was based on the size of the building and had been met;
but parking had not been met for 2,640 people. Mayor Jablin stated if 1,750 seats were
approved he would like to know that only 1,750 people could attend. Siro DeGasperis
commented at the time of the original approval he had stated that whatever number was
agreed to, the church would be back to ask for more; that the City Council had approved
1,750 seats but the church built a building for 2,500; for 5 years they had constantly violated
the conditions of approval; and suggested they had planned all this from the beginning. Mr.
DeGasperis suggested that the church should build another sanctuary somewhere else to
accommodate their growth. Mr. Ciklin responded that was unfair, and the church believed
they met all the requirements or if they did not they needed to hear that. Mr. Ciklin noted
that the building had been approved and constructed for 2,500 seats and that 2,500 seats had
CITY OF PALM BEACH GARDENS WORKSHOP MEETING, 8/1/02 2
been requested, but the Council had limited the number to 1,750. Mayor Jablin indicated that
at the time he had believed the sanctuary would be built to hold 1,750 and the rest of the
square footage would be used for offices, etc., which was not what had happened. Mayor
Jablin advised that if more than 1,750 showed up for a service, then the church needed to add
another service. Mr. Ciklin noted that would magnify the alleged inconvenience to the
surrounding neighborhoods. Vice Mayor Sabatello asked for clarification of the seating
approval, to which Mr. Wu responded that the approval was for 1,750 seats and did not
mention capacity of the structure. The Vice Mayor noted there was no enforcement in case
the number went over 1,750; and suggested it would make sense to come up with a cap of
attendance capacity in the building area. Mr. Wu indicated that was possible and that staff
had figured that to be 2,284 moveable seats for the Fire code. Vice Mayor Sabatello
indicated it did not matter if the seats were moveable or not, but the total capacity should be
defined. Discussion ensued. The City Attorney advised if moveable seats were granted the
church could come in later and ask for permanent seats up to 2,542. It was clarified that a
moveable seat took more room than a permanent seat. Councilmember Delgado noted the
original approval language only said 1,750 seats and did not mention maximum people,
which needed to be specific in the future. Mr. Ciklin advised that if the City Council granted
approval for their request, the church would agree to limit the number of people to be the
same as the number of seats. Discussion ensued by the neighborhood representatives. A
major concern was that the City Attorney had advised that if the City Council changed the
existing approval in any way either by granting the church's request, a portion of the church's
request, or denying the church's request, that would open the door to the City being subject
to the Religious Land Use and Incarcerated Persons Act of 2000 (RLUPA). Vice Mayor
Sabatello indicated he wanted to define the gray area by placing a cap on capacity but if that
could not be done it seemed to him the direction was that the land owner would go to the
courts and let the courts define the gray area. Mayor Jablin noted that the church saw 1,750
as a base and he saw it as a limit. Mr. Ciklin commented the church had no intention of
suing the City if a number could be agreed upon. The City Attorney advised he did not think
if the City Council complied with the applicant's request that they would be accused of
violating RLUPA; and that the position advanced by the church was if the City did not
modify the conditions then they were applying the 1997 conditions again, two years after
enactment of RLUPA, and thus were in violation of RLUPA. Attorney Watterson continued
that if some vehicle could be found that would allow agreement to be reached, the applicant
had indicated they would not sue, and supposing that could be done so that this could be
ended once and for all and the City would not question in the future what they did in 2002,
maybe that could be accommodated. Mr. Watterson commented that he and Attorney Rubin
were looking into any way they could assure the citizens that any agreement entered into at
this time would be a done deal forevermore, and they had not yet figured that out. Mr.
Watterson advised it would be tricky and the City must be careful not to reach agreement
with the church but still leave the door open to be sued by a member of the church under
RLUPA, and the attorneys could work with Mr. Ciklin if so directed by the City Council and
come back with a report, but it would come down to the enforceability of the agreement that
would be reached on this application. Mayor Jablin noted that another route that could be
taken was to ask a judge for declarative action on RLUPA to determine if it was applicable in
this particular case. Attorney Watterson advised he believed RLUPA to be unconstitutional
and that it would eventually be stricken down. Mayor Jablin noted there were many gray
CITY OF PALM BEACH GARDENS REGULAR MEETING, 8/1/02 3
areas and he felt the City should obtain definitive information on RLUPA to know how to
handle future requests. Attorney Watterson clarified that in the request for declarative
judgment the courts could either decide the law was completely inapplicable because it was
unconstitutional, or could presume constitutionality and decide that denial of the request was
not a reapplication of the 1997 conditions. The only thing that could complicate the issue
and make it more costly and time consuming would be if another party decided to complicate
the case and broaden the decision. Mr. Watterson commented he hoped Mr. Ciklin's past
comment of `you sue us and we'll sue you' would not enter into the declaratory judgment
request, for which he estimated a $10,000 cost, and did not expect that the church would be
interested in spending a lot just to wear down the City. Councilmember Russo asked if the
applicant was entitled to due process, stating that he did not want to be sued on the land use
if the City went for declaratory judgment. Attorney Watterson responded that the land owner
was entitled to a final hearing on their land use request and based on his experience in a
previous case, if the applicant brought a lawsuit because they felt their request was being
delayed, the City would win. Councilmember Russo noted that the neighborhood coalition
was intent on no additional development and the church was intent on additional
development, so there was no use to hold another session, that nothing had been
accomplished tonight, and the public hearing would proceed on September 5. Attorney
Ciklin offered something to think about before September 5, which was that the church was
willing to live with the life safety code of 2,284, which was the law anyway; was willing to
enter into anything enforceable to enforce that number; that they considered the shuttle bus
issue a non - issue; that Pastor Mullins agreed to reduce the number of extra events to six; that
the church wanted the ability to simulcast off -site to the south campus, keeping in mind there
was a limit of seats and life safety codes at that campus, too. Attorney Ciklin commented
that in this interim possibly a way might be found to fashion an agreement, but if not, the
church would just go on from there, and the church was here to try to work things out and not
to foster a lawsuit, but that was not to say they would not protect their rights. Attorney
Waterson asked for clarification that the applicant was willing to agree to 2,284 total or
maximum capacity if a way could be found to make that stick; to which Attorney Ciklin
responded that was correct; agreed to no people standing at all; and commented the easy way
to enforce that was to have 2,284 seats and when those were full that was the limit. Attorney
Ciklin indicated he was available to work with the City Attorney over the next month and to
utilize all the resources of his law firm.
CITY OF PALM BEACH GARDENS WORKSHOP MEETING, 8/1/02 4
ADJOURNMENT:
There being no further business to discuss, the meeting was adjourned at approximately
6:15 p.m.
APPROVAL:
ATTEST: �=�=
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